10 ms·

The rise of website builders like Wix, Squarespace, and Shopify has drastically changed the web design and development industry. As a co-founder and lead develo

The rise of website builders like Wix, Squarespace, and Shopify has drastically changed the web design and development industry. As a co-founder and lead developer of a small design/development team, I loved my job and was passionate about creating beautiful and functional websites. However, as more and more clients turned to these DIY platforms, I found it increasingly difficult to justify our higher prices. While our work was more sophisticated and better optimized for SEO, clients often didn't see the value in paying £10,000 or more for it. Ultimately, I realized that our trade had become commoditized, and I made the difficult decision to sell the business and move on. I transitioned to a new role as a Product Manager, and over the years, I've climbed the ranks to become a CTO at a scaling startup. Although I miss the thrill of being a developer and creating websites from scratch, I've found new challenges and fulfillment in my current position. If you're facing a similar situation, I'd suggest exploring other avenues to keep your passion for development alive. Consider taking on side projects as a hobby, collaborating with industry friends to start an indie project, or even teaching others about web development. Just be sure to carefully review any non-compete agreements with your current employer before pursuing any new ventures. Remember, although your job may have changed, your passion for creating great websites can still thrive in new ways.

pdc56 4y ago
Curious - on a scale out of 10, how much of that was written by ChatGPT? No offense intended - if the answer is zero, my apologies
- precompute 4y ago
  I don't think it was written by a LLM, the words have a warmth that generated text lacks. Plus you can tell it's written as if it's half-spoken.
  - iLoveOncall 4y ago
    > the words have a warmth that generated text lacks Reminds me of my philosophy teacher in high-school that gave me the best grade of the year and praised how "personal" it felt, for an essay I had bought online for 3 euros. The irony of it still makes me chuckle 15 years later.
    - precompute 4y ago
      Where's the irony?
      - LeonB 4y ago
        The lecturer perceived it to be “personal” implying authentic and genuine, but in truth the essay was the opposite of these things, that is ironic.
        precompute 4y ago
        Sure, but it was written by a human and not a LLM.
  - dmd 4y ago
    > warmth That shows the LLM is running on vacuum tubes.
    - fxtentacle 4y ago
      Perfect. My next business venture is selling ChatGPT text-warming equipment to audiophile readers.
    - kergonath 4y ago
      And gold-plated pure monocrystalline copper connectors.
  - m348e912 4y ago
    I think being able to identify LLM generated text would be a nice skill to have, but unfortunately I don't think it's as easy as you think it is.
- lisp-pornstar 4y ago
  30%, take your bets
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  Imho 9:1 written entirely by human.
- have_faith 4y ago
  I’ve noticed a large amount of responses from chatgpt start the second/third paragraph with “however, “ or a similar adverb. It will always strive to provide a “balanced” view, even on heavily one sided subjects.
  - figassis 4y ago
    I use however a lot
    - eega 4y ago
      Same
  - biztos 4y ago
    However, it’s usually more covering its digital ass against the pitchfork-wielding critics than actually balancing the view.
- savef 4y ago
  https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/ https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/ Using this tool on the comment yields a 77.6% fake score. To give (pretty limited) contrast, a response from ChatGPT gives 99.9% fake, and another comment from this thread gives 0.1% fake. I assume that means the comment text was GPT-assisted, with some moderate editing from a human.
  - Mistletoe 4y ago
    This is fascinating. I can’t imagine why someone would go to the trouble to do all that for a comment.
    - MonkeyClub 4y ago
      The irony of using a LLM to write a text that complains of the pervasiveness of automated tooling for web design is hard to miss. But perhaps it’s just that the author has internalized copywriting formulas to a degree that their text appears machine generated?
      - Applejinx 4y ago
        We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass In our dry cellar
      - TeMPOraL 4y ago
        Or Reddit. Let's not forget what LLMs are trained on. It's not just Wikipedia and some official text corpora, it's Reddit dumps and other regular Internet conversations. If you learned how to write English on-line, there's a chance you've internalized a style similar to how LLMs often respond. (In fact, I often feel like I sound too much like ChatGPT myself.)
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        The GPT-detector is fascinating (and seemed to work pretty well on some inputs I tested) On the other hand, this next paragraph is scored as 84% fake and I'm quite sure Churchill didn't have Chat-GPT to help: > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the new world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old. IMO, we must not be too quick to conclude that any given text was created/assisted by an LLM based on a scoring algorithm alone. (A low GPT likelihood is probably reliable [for now, until that starts being gamed].) If you offered me even odds, I'd wager that the subject comment was 100% hand-written.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  I wonder how much of the original reddit post was written by ChatGPT, it seems to tick a lot of boxes.
- iamphilrae 4y ago
  100% truthfully, I wrote it all myself, but tweaked the opening paragraph with ChatGPT to improve my grammar slightly. It’s a great tool, and one that should not be dismissed, just like spell checkers and the grammar checkers of old in the likes on MS Word. Maybe it does come across a bit ChatGPT-like which is unfortunate I suppose. As for the suggestions of me asking it to write the comment from prompts, then I’m afraid that’s 100% wrong.
prawn 4y ago
It's not just that the budgets are harder to justify; it's also that prospective clients consider themselves to be experts. Having your judgement and expertise consistently overruled is disheartening and you often end up just following instructions, sapping any joy from the (diminishing and cheaper) role. I started my web business 25 years ago. 5ish years ago I started photographing and filming travel content, primarily with a drone. More fun, more interesting, better feedback, etc. When building my own web projects though, I still love it.
- echelon 4y ago
  No. It's that the job to be done is to sell product. Not build a handcrafted website. Not build a beautiful website. Provide something that markets and sells something to customers. And with that perspective, the client really does know better. The web is ephemeral. Will it even still exist in twenty five years after AI provides all the answers and connections (all we use the web for anyway)?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    In many cases, the client is right. I remember a college buddy who designed websites complaining about a problem client. Apparently he wrote their site in Silverlight, and the restaurant wasn’t thrilled someone had to download a plug-in to see their hours.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ProllyInfamous 4y ago
      LOL my first "production" website was made around 1997/8 and it required people to install FLASH — not a hit, and no traffic either — because I just wanted it to have this certain featureset =P
  - kashunstva 4y ago
    > the client really does know better. really _may_ know better. Some have very skewed notions about UI/UX that don’t conform to how most users (and pertinently, their customers) use web apps; but they will insist on it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jrochkind1 4y ago
I think the effect on the job market of (things like) midjourney is much more drastic and steeply immediate than that historical example (not sure if it's a true story or hypothetical? not sure if it was written by chat-gpt?). I mean, I'm sure many developers over the years have found their jobs disappear, and many contracting companies have gone out of business due to changed market. But at least through now, even with the layoffs, jobs developing websites are still plentiful. (Perhaps that won't be true in the future, sure). I feel like OP is probably right that they are going to have a lot of trouble getting a job creating 3D art, that the job market has _drastically_ shrunken almost overnight, beyond the effect that wix/squarespace/etc had. (Although of course even in your example, it's a shrunken market) But maybe I'm not correct?
- iamphilrae 4y ago
  All I was really getting at was that it sapped the love (and money) out of the job, like the OP was suggesting for them and Midjourney. Once your art/talent has become something that either the common person or a machine can do, your only option as a career is to move on and diversify. It’s unfortunate, but has been happening for decades in all industries. Anyway, just sharing my experience of it happening to me.
devoutsalsa 4y ago
Is it common to use website builders like SquareSpace with a backend API?
flerovium 4y ago
This feels different because we engineers are being eaten by our own young, but an artist never wanted or bargained for it. Programming is fun, but humanity has always existed with art. We are slowly crushing something that is good and important.

pdc56 4y ago

Curious - on a scale out of 10, how much of that was written by ChatGPT? No offense intended - if the answer is zero, my apologies

precompute 4y ago
I don't think it was written by a LLM, the words have a warmth that generated text lacks. Plus you can tell it's written as if it's half-spoken.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  > the words have a warmth that generated text lacks Reminds me of my philosophy teacher in high-school that gave me the best grade of the year and praised how "personal" it felt, for an essay I had bought online for 3 euros. The irony of it still makes me chuckle 15 years later.
  - precompute 4y ago
    Where's the irony?
    - LeonB 4y ago
      The lecturer perceived it to be “personal” implying authentic and genuine, but in truth the essay was the opposite of these things, that is ironic.
      - precompute 4y ago
        Sure, but it was written by a human and not a LLM.
- dmd 4y ago
  > warmth That shows the LLM is running on vacuum tubes.
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    Perfect. My next business venture is selling ChatGPT text-warming equipment to audiophile readers.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    And gold-plated pure monocrystalline copper connectors.
- m348e912 4y ago
  I think being able to identify LLM generated text would be a nice skill to have, but unfortunately I don't think it's as easy as you think it is.
lisp-pornstar 4y ago
30%, take your bets
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
Imho 9:1 written entirely by human.
have_faith 4y ago
I’ve noticed a large amount of responses from chatgpt start the second/third paragraph with “however, “ or a similar adverb. It will always strive to provide a “balanced” view, even on heavily one sided subjects.
- figassis 4y ago
  I use however a lot
  - eega 4y ago
    Same
- biztos 4y ago
  However, it’s usually more covering its digital ass against the pitchfork-wielding critics than actually balancing the view.
savef 4y ago
https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/ https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/ Using this tool on the comment yields a 77.6% fake score. To give (pretty limited) contrast, a response from ChatGPT gives 99.9% fake, and another comment from this thread gives 0.1% fake. I assume that means the comment text was GPT-assisted, with some moderate editing from a human.
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  This is fascinating. I can’t imagine why someone would go to the trouble to do all that for a comment.
  - MonkeyClub 4y ago
    The irony of using a LLM to write a text that complains of the pervasiveness of automated tooling for web design is hard to miss. But perhaps it’s just that the author has internalized copywriting formulas to a degree that their text appears machine generated?
    - Applejinx 4y ago
      We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men Leaning together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over broken glass In our dry cellar
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      Or Reddit. Let's not forget what LLMs are trained on. It's not just Wikipedia and some official text corpora, it's Reddit dumps and other regular Internet conversations. If you learned how to write English on-line, there's a chance you've internalized a style similar to how LLMs often respond. (In fact, I often feel like I sound too much like ChatGPT myself.)
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      The GPT-detector is fascinating (and seemed to work pretty well on some inputs I tested) On the other hand, this next paragraph is scored as 84% fake and I'm quite sure Churchill didn't have Chat-GPT to help: > We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the new world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old. IMO, we must not be too quick to conclude that any given text was created/assisted by an LLM based on a scoring algorithm alone. (A low GPT likelihood is probably reliable [for now, until that starts being gamed].) If you offered me even odds, I'd wager that the subject comment was 100% hand-written.
lamontcg 4y ago
I wonder how much of the original reddit post was written by ChatGPT, it seems to tick a lot of boxes.
iamphilrae 4y ago
100% truthfully, I wrote it all myself, but tweaked the opening paragraph with ChatGPT to improve my grammar slightly. It’s a great tool, and one that should not be dismissed, just like spell checkers and the grammar checkers of old in the likes on MS Word. Maybe it does come across a bit ChatGPT-like which is unfortunate I suppose. As for the suggestions of me asking it to write the comment from prompts, then I’m afraid that’s 100% wrong.

prawn 4y ago

It's not just that the budgets are harder to justify; it's also that prospective clients consider themselves to be experts. Having your judgement and expertise consistently overruled is disheartening and you often end up just following instructions, sapping any joy from the (diminishing and cheaper) role. I started my web business 25 years ago. 5ish years ago I started photographing and filming travel content, primarily with a drone. More fun, more interesting, better feedback, etc. When building my own web projects though, I still love it.

echelon 4y ago
No. It's that the job to be done is to sell product. Not build a handcrafted website. Not build a beautiful website. Provide something that markets and sells something to customers. And with that perspective, the client really does know better. The web is ephemeral. Will it even still exist in twenty five years after AI provides all the answers and connections (all we use the web for anyway)?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  In many cases, the client is right. I remember a college buddy who designed websites complaining about a problem client. Apparently he wrote their site in Silverlight, and the restaurant wasn’t thrilled someone had to download a plug-in to see their hours.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ProllyInfamous 4y ago
    LOL my first "production" website was made around 1997/8 and it required people to install FLASH — not a hit, and no traffic either — because I just wanted it to have this certain featureset =P
- kashunstva 4y ago
  > the client really does know better. really _may_ know better. Some have very skewed notions about UI/UX that don’t conform to how most users (and pertinently, their customers) use web apps; but they will insist on it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jrochkind1 4y ago

I think the effect on the job market of (things like) midjourney is much more drastic and steeply immediate than that historical example (not sure if it's a true story or hypothetical? not sure if it was written by chat-gpt?). I mean, I'm sure many developers over the years have found their jobs disappear, and many contracting companies have gone out of business due to changed market. But at least through now, even with the layoffs, jobs developing websites are still plentiful. (Perhaps that won't be true in the future, sure). I feel like OP is probably right that they are going to have a lot of trouble getting a job creating 3D art, that the job market has _drastically_ shrunken almost overnight, beyond the effect that wix/squarespace/etc had. (Although of course even in your example, it's a shrunken market) But maybe I'm not correct?

iamphilrae 4y ago
All I was really getting at was that it sapped the love (and money) out of the job, like the OP was suggesting for them and Midjourney. Once your art/talent has become something that either the common person or a machine can do, your only option as a career is to move on and diversify. It’s unfortunate, but has been happening for decades in all industries. Anyway, just sharing my experience of it happening to me.

devoutsalsa 4y ago

Is it common to use website builders like SquareSpace with a backend API?

flerovium 4y ago

This feels different because we engineers are being eaten by our own young, but an artist never wanted or bargained for it. Programming is fun, but humanity has always existed with art. We are slowly crushing something that is good and important.