8 ms·

Your reading should be messy

90 points by ingve 4y ago

paulrpotts 4y ago
My family has a home library and we treat it like a regular library. My kids pull anything off the shelves they want, and read it, and then it goes in a box to be re-shelved (since otherwise some of the younger kids will put them back in semi-random places). They also have access to a huge CD library and a CD player/amplifier. The only rule there is they have one CD out of the case at a time (because they tend to drop cases of they are piled up). This is strictly a practical matter to limit the amount of repair work I have to do. I know the cases are replaceable; I've replaced many dozens of them and I"m sick of it! There are also some "special collection" things: mineral collections, electronic kits, etc. The only rules with those is they have to be put away. They've got a low table, a high table, and couple of comfy chairs, and reading lamps. We ask them not to read them while eating or drinking (other than water bottles) and to keep the library items downstairs. It's because we have toddlers who don't have access to the library and they like to tear up books. We also ask them not to fold over pages (in paperbacks this results in the pages eventually breaking off, sometimes shockingly soon due to acid paper becoming brittle). I ask them not to write in the books. We have a huge supply of yellow pads and other notebooks of various sizes and they are welcome to use them, and an endless supply of pencils and pens. I make a distinction between honest wear and carelessness. I love it when I see the books showing wear from reading. A lot of the books are somewhat rare and were hard to obtain. They can read those just like the others. I do have a special collection of signed books upstairs in my bedroom but most of those books have "reading copy" mates in the library. I don't love it when I see that someone's left it upside down on a dirty floor and the spine is split or a cover has been torn off. That's not honest wear - someone let a toddler at one of the library books without supervision.
cutler 4y ago
Disagree completely. My copy of "Programming Perl" 4th edition is still in pristine condition after two readings and I prefer it that way. My favourite tech books all have plastic jackets which I ordered individually for each book.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  I actually disagree except in the case of programming/software books. Unless the book is for an unusual example or early version of a language or piece of software, it's going into the landfill in 5 years no matter what.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Aside from a few things of particular historical or personal interest (e.g. an old O'Reilly The Whole Internet with a passing mention of that new-fangled WWW thing), I've tossed bookshelves full of old manuals and programming books. Not even worth donating them because they're just going to create for someone to toss them.
  - cutler 4y ago
    You're obviously reading the wrong books. Try Programming Perl, Clojure in Action or Well Grounded Rubyist. If you have a soul you will not want to part with them.
namaria 4y ago
I've always felt that the contents of books are precious. I always go for the cheapest copy I can find so I can get my hands on as many books as possible. And the more worn a book is, more of it's content has made its way into my brain =)
photochemsyn 4y ago
If you really like a book, you can get a nice archival copy on printed on acid-free paper and only read it while wearing special gloves, and also a working copy that you outline in and scribble in the margins and spill coffee on.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Yeah. Not to criticize anyone else's take but, unless something is some variant of a "coffee table book" meant to be appreciated in part for its form, anything is fair game. Most cookbooks I regularly use have scribbling in the margins as well as reference books of other sorts. I have zero issue with taking notes in a paperback. Perhaps obviously, I like/prefer ebooks for a lot of purposes too. The form of some books is a lot of the experience and in general I won't mess that up by writing in them. But most are about the words and I don't consider the form sacrosanct in any way.
ZoomZoomZoom 4y ago
The fact that you treat your books with respect by using them properly doesn't mean you're not going to read and maybe even love some of them. Knowing how to open a new book, how to turn pages properly, keeping your hands clean when you handle them, knowing how to wrap a book in a protective cover when you take it with you, and keeping the notes in your notebooks where they belong is essential. Little things like that is what human culture is made of.
- jjice 4y ago
  > is essential I like the sentiment, but I think there is a healthy middle ground and really the right answer is for the owner of the book to treat it however they feel brings them the most job.
  - ZoomZoomZoom 4y ago
    > really the right answer is for the owner of the book to treat it however they feel brings them the most job That's not what the article said and thus not what I was arguing with. While I tend to agree with your statement, I just can't bring myself to seeing books as mere things.
- sbaiddn 4y ago
  "knowing how to wrap a book in a protective cover when you take it with you, " Did you grow up in a poor country? My mom used to do that when I was a kid. After we moved to N America I only saw it done once. Its actually quite lovely.
  - stametseater 4y ago
    When I was a kid my mother used to help me wrap all my textbooks, although we didn't do that with other books. It seemed typical at the time (in America btw) but it might be a dying practice as textbooks go digital and schools give kids ipads instead.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
huijzer 4y ago
I couldn’t agree more. I listen to multiple audiobooks sort of intermittently plus multiple podcasts and it’s great to have such a mess. It’s about processing the information. What’s the point of reading a book if you don’t plan to remember it! Even fiction should be memorable I hope
cardanome 4y ago
Books are expensive. Sure, I am currently earning enough money to be able to afford messing up my books if I wanted to but it feels so wasteful. Feels so weird to purposely vandalize your own stuff. I prefer making notes in a separate medium and keeping my books clean. I like being able to gift or sell my books to other people. Plus, I might want to re-read them and I really dislike having any annotations in them. I feel like it would stop me from having a "fresh read".
- cocacola1 4y ago
  I feel the opposite. Writing in a book is the final step in really making it mine. Not writing in it seems to be an insult to the author, that what they wrote isn't important enough to engage with (though some are that bad).
  - pedrosbmartins 4y ago
    It seems you are mistaking the actual book (a story, an exposition of a subject, etc.) for the printed set of cover and pages, which is only a physical instance of the book itself. Writing your notes in a separate medium is just as much engaging with the book as writing in the margins of a physical copy. It's a matter of taste really, but definitely not an insult to the author!
  - cardanome 4y ago
    How did you grow up that you could develop that habit though? Thinking about my childhood, the vast majority of the books I read were from libraries. School books were also all lend from school. Sure, I also owned plenty of books myself but my parents would have been pretty pissed if I vandalized them as my siblings might want to read them. For me books where always something to share not something to own. Never got the need to make them "my own".
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      I take pride in not making them my own, and that other people will have them after I'm dead, and the books will be theirs. I've been taking care of some books for 40 years now. Plenty of those I got because someone else took care of them for 40 years before me. If anything, I feel guilty when I accidentally buy bad books that no one in the future would want to read. Honestly, when people who take care of their things die, it's like an explosion of wealth. The things in my place range from the mid-19th century to today. If you let people pick through my shit and take something that looks cool, my death could result in 1000 smiles. edit: I even take care of the things that I've made. They're no doubt mine, but some of those things will make someone else just as happy as they've made me.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
Is this a good time to mention I replaced my library with a kindle some time ago? ^^ (Someone was going to say it.)
- themadturk 4y ago
  I've done much the same, though the books that have been most important to me over the years I have hardbound copies of. But I don't have enough room in my apartment for all the books I own, and have read. Kindle and related devices have effectively infinite capacity.
the_af 4y ago
If you scribble one of my books, I'll kill you. I don't understand people who do this. Other than that, I agree that books want to be handled. I read a lot of books and I also re-read a lot, and my books look worn. I also accept bending pages to remember where you left the story; I never have bookmarks handy. But scribbling? No, you're banned from my house.
- cocacola1 4y ago
  This seems to be about scribbling in your own books though, not someone elses.
  - iamerroragent 4y ago
    Writing in the margins is a thing I believe many a scribe has done for many generations It's recognized as a study aid. Especially if you're re-reading or studying a lot of material on a subject and need to go back. You can easily see what your past self was thinking or maybe quickly find a part you found interesting. It's fundamentally useful to write up your own books.
    - the_af 4y ago
      I never found useful to write up my own books. I find it ruins them for other people, too.
      - iamerroragent 4y ago
        Suit yourself. It is just one tool among many for the acquisition and retention of knowledge. I like used books with notes in it. It's interesting to see what someone previously reading felt was important or to glimpse into the past life of book itself.
        throw_away1525 4y ago
        This made me remember a time I checked a book out from the library and found lots of little notes written in Chinese characters in the margins throughout the book. Most if not all were, I assume, translations of words. It was quite nice - they had wonderful penmanship.
lfciv 4y ago
My personal take is books read better when they're "read". That is, when they've been used time and again. I tried switching to Kindle, but I found that I read less.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  My pepere has a worn copy of On the Road by Kerouac near his chair that he often opens to an random page and begins reading.
  - lfciv 4y ago
    Funny I sometimes do the same with my copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
cocacola1 4y ago
The only books I do treat pristinely are those from the library – then, I write on a different page, as well as special copies e.g. I have an annotated and illustrated The Hobbit, as well as an old paperback. The latter would be written in. But for books I own, I almost always annotate, highlight, mark up, write in, etc. however I want. I forgot who said it – probably Mortimer J. Adler – but writing in a book and engaging with it is the highest compliment you can pay to an author. T
DDayMace 4y ago
I think it really depends on the book, type of printing and its purpose. You might have a first edition you never open and read the kindle instead, have a cheap paperback for the beach that has sand and water wrinkles, or you might have a well used out of print tech book that you are gentle with in the hopes it will last longer than you do. If someone wants a display quality hardback to line their living room bookshelf to impress guests or accent their video meeting background, so what? Life is too short to read everything. Read what keeps your interest, page by page. If a book bores you, don't finish it. Sell it, give it to a friend, drop it off at goodwill, let it gather dust. So what? Just my two cents.
oweiler 4y ago
Me and my son had a lot of fun "reading" this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/428862.Wreck_This_Journal https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/428862.Wreck_This_Journa...
slickdork 4y ago
When I was a teen, I heard an author say they loved signing clearly well worn copies of their books. Not only did it mean it was not likely going to be resold, but it also meant it was well loved. I've always treated my books roughly since then. I always carry a paperback in my back pocket, and it's often margin written and beer stained. My favorite books get the worst treatment.
sakras 4y ago
People who write in books: what do you write? I remember being forced to write on sticky notes in high school, and trying several times afterwards, and I just don’t get it. I see the phrase “engaging with the writing” thrown around by proponents. What does “engaging” mean here? In regards to letting books get scuffed up, I must say I disagree as well. I like to keep all of my things shiny and new, and my books are no exception.
- japhyr 4y ago
  I have a few different ways of marking up a text. In one approach, I make a small vertical line in the margin next to a line I find significant. Sometimes that vertical line extends down a few lines to mark a longer passage. If it's really important, I add a second line, and sometimes I'll even add a third line. For many books, this is just a way of mentally noting something and letting it go enough to move on. But if I end up wanting to write a review of a book (usually a blog post, not a bookstore review), I just skim through these marked up sections. That's usually enough to guide my write up. The triple-marked sections usually end up quoted in the review. I also write a capital R in the margin next to things I'd like to research further. Sometimes I put a question mark next to a section I'm skeptical of.
- skydhash 4y ago
  Engaging means thinking about the author’s words as in you’re in a debate/discussion. You may agree, but notice something you need to research more about. You may disagree and not down why you do. You may want to summarize the point he is making. You may want to link it to another work. For myself, I don’t really do it if I’m new to the subject, maybe a few lines about each chapter. But once I’ve read a few different books, I’m starting to form my own opinion or try to link concepts across books. This is what my notes are about.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Why would you write those notes in the book? To find the note, you'd have to find the thing you were writing the note about (i.e. the passage on the page), so then what do you need the note for?
exmadscientist 4y ago
In fact, everything should be treated this way. Yes, you shouldn't abuse stuff (which is a very fine line -- sometimes being very harsh on a tool can save your ass, is that abuse or just the tool rising to the occasion?), but it's always meant to be used. Objects fall into two categories: 1. Things meant to be preserved so future generations can have them, just as you have them now. 2. Things meant to be used. (A third category, things meant to appreciate in value, is so close to #1 that it's not worth separating out.) Use your stuff. That's what it's for. Who do you respect more, the mechanic with a toolbox full of pristine tools without a single scratch, or the one with a box full of battered, dinged-up tools? This article's library full of factory-new books, or one full of creased, dog-eared, broken-spined books? Which child's toy had the better life, the one that's indistinguishable from new or the one that's indistinguishable from a pile of scraps and fluff? Use. Your. Stuff. It's what it's for.
- GlumWoodpecker 4y ago
  Category 3: Anything that isn't disposable or a tool. Most stuff can be of value to others once you are done using it. I treat all my stuff with care, because some day I might want to sell it, or give it away to someone. Whether it's a book, electronics, kitchenware, or furniture doesn't really matter; The value of the item (in money or in usefulness to the recipient) will always be higher the better condition something is in. You also are less likely to have to buy replacement items if you are careful with them in the first place. I agree in that you shouldn't treat everything like porcelain, but there is definitely value in treating your things with care.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  I think you meant for 2, "Things meant to be used up." You use the things in category 1, too. For me, category one includes all of my books. Category two consists almost entirely of food, cleaning and hygiene products, and most bedding and underwear. I got most of my books after they had been purchased and probably read, I don't know why I should assume I was the end of the line. [edit: I mean, I have books and things that I know have had multiple owners; I've got books from Bell Labs' library that were lent out a few dozen times and touched by many more hands. Why should I scribble in them and treat them like shit again? Instead of treating them like shit, I'd rather just destroy them in a careful scanning process.] > Who do you respect more, the mechanic with a toolbox full of pristine tools without a single scratch, or the one with a box full of battered, dinged-up tools? If by "respect" you mean would rather hire, I'd rather hire the third guy with the well-used, very well-taken care of tools. Why would I hire a slob that isn't maintaining their equipment?
Ferret7446 4y ago
I think we should break down this topic further. One of the key contention points is whether one respects the book/author by keeping the book pristine vs marking it (or whether the book as a physical object deserves respect). This is purely subjective, and has a historical precedent. Books used to be freaking expensive, so of course you would want to preserve it. Now, most books can be printed cheaply, but some people still like to keep their possessions clean. There are many other examples of this divide, like how people use their tools, pots, kitchens, cars, laptops, etc. The other is whether actively engaging with the book helps with understanding and recall. I don't think there is much disagreement on this point, but this does not require marking the physical book. You can use post-it notes and such, but in the digital age, arguably marking a physical book is inferior to annotating a digital copy and cross-hyperlinking it with other books and your personal knowledge base. Unfortunately both the technology and copyright law is lacking in this area as far as I'm aware, but rather than debating whether to write in physical books, I think everyone would benefit from innovating on the digital side of things.
- igloo_ghost 4y ago
  I make highlights in Calibre and export them as markdown to make it part of my knowledge management system
examplary_cable 4y ago
Has anyone here heart of "incremental reading"? The concept of breaking a book into "chunks" and then individually scheduling those chunks to be read via an spaced repetition algorithm. The thing is that incremental reading is much harder to do with physical books. And you would have to either calculate the next schedule(hard) or use a simple leinter box system(loss of efficiency). I wonder if normal reading is this "pristine" reading and incremental reading being the "messy" reading.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cafard 4y ago
  When Norman Mailer died, some item in the paper said that he was known for taking books apart into pieces that were easier to manage. Whether these were his own novels, or those of other writers, I don't remember. But no, I had not heard of incremental reading in this sense. So after reading the section on regular languages in the Cinderella book one would reread it before moving on to context-free languages?
gerdesj 4y ago
The article does not capitalize all the words in its title. Reading is in Berkshire, reading is a gerund.
thenerdhead 4y ago
Some books are not good enough to be messy with. But those that are good enough are either scribbled in everywhere or left in pristine condition while taking notes elsewhere to not disgrace the masterpiece.
tpoacher 4y ago
I couldn't disagree more with this article. In fact, every time I see someone grab a book in perfect condition off a shelf and then proceed to crack the spine as if it's some sort of required ritual before even considering whether to read the book, I feel like I die a bit inside.
DHPersonal 4y ago
I try to keep my books pristine and even try to fix damaged elements of them because they’re so precious, not because they’re jewels. I don’t open the spines to their cracking point, or bend a page, or write in them, or get their covers all fingerprinty because I value the book and want it to last a long time. To treat it poorly by doing all the things the author claims are nearly essential is to degrade the life of the book and rid me of its pleasures sooner than I’d like.
stiglitz 4y ago
One time at a coffee shop, I saw a woman carefully highlighting, line by line, essentially an entire page of a book she was reading. This doesn’t strike me as mindful behavior.

90 points by ingve 4y ago

My family has a home library and we treat it like a regular library. My kids pull anything off the shelves they want, and read it, and then it goes in a box to be re-shelved (since otherwise some of the younger kids will put them back in semi-random places). They also have access to a huge CD library and a CD player/amplifier. The only rule there is they have one CD out of the case at a time (because they tend to drop cases of they are piled up). This is strictly a practical matter to limit the amount of repair work I have to do. I know the cases are replaceable; I've replaced many dozens of them and I"m sick of it! There are also some "special collection" things: mineral collections, electronic kits, etc. The only rules with those is they have to be put away. They've got a low table, a high table, and couple of comfy chairs, and reading lamps. We ask them not to read them while eating or drinking (other than water bottles) and to keep the library items downstairs. It's because we have toddlers who don't have access to the library and they like to tear up books. We also ask them not to fold over pages (in paperbacks this results in the pages eventually breaking off, sometimes shockingly soon due to acid paper becoming brittle). I ask them not to write in the books. We have a huge supply of yellow pads and other notebooks of various sizes and they are welcome to use them, and an endless supply of pencils and pens. I make a distinction between honest wear and carelessness. I love it when I see the books showing wear from reading. A lot of the books are somewhat rare and were hard to obtain. They can read those just like the others. I do have a special collection of signed books upstairs in my bedroom but most of those books have "reading copy" mates in the library. I don't love it when I see that someone's left it upside down on a dirty floor and the spine is split or a cover has been torn off. That's not honest wear - someone let a toddler at one of the library books without supervision.

cutler 4y ago

Disagree completely. My copy of "Programming Perl" 4th edition is still in pristine condition after two readings and I prefer it that way. My favourite tech books all have plastic jackets which I ordered individually for each book.

pessimizer 4y ago
I actually disagree except in the case of programming/software books. Unless the book is for an unusual example or early version of a language or piece of software, it's going into the landfill in 5 years no matter what.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Aside from a few things of particular historical or personal interest (e.g. an old O'Reilly The Whole Internet with a passing mention of that new-fangled WWW thing), I've tossed bookshelves full of old manuals and programming books. Not even worth donating them because they're just going to create for someone to toss them.
- cutler 4y ago
  You're obviously reading the wrong books. Try Programming Perl, Clojure in Action or Well Grounded Rubyist. If you have a soul you will not want to part with them.

namaria 4y ago

I've always felt that the contents of books are precious. I always go for the cheapest copy I can find so I can get my hands on as many books as possible. And the more worn a book is, more of it's content has made its way into my brain =)

photochemsyn 4y ago

If you really like a book, you can get a nice archival copy on printed on acid-free paper and only read it while wearing special gloves, and also a working copy that you outline in and scribble in the margins and spill coffee on.

ghaff 4y ago
Yeah. Not to criticize anyone else's take but, unless something is some variant of a "coffee table book" meant to be appreciated in part for its form, anything is fair game. Most cookbooks I regularly use have scribbling in the margins as well as reference books of other sorts. I have zero issue with taking notes in a paperback. Perhaps obviously, I like/prefer ebooks for a lot of purposes too. The form of some books is a lot of the experience and in general I won't mess that up by writing in them. But most are about the words and I don't consider the form sacrosanct in any way.

ZoomZoomZoom 4y ago

The fact that you treat your books with respect by using them properly doesn't mean you're not going to read and maybe even love some of them. Knowing how to open a new book, how to turn pages properly, keeping your hands clean when you handle them, knowing how to wrap a book in a protective cover when you take it with you, and keeping the notes in your notebooks where they belong is essential. Little things like that is what human culture is made of.

jjice 4y ago
> is essential I like the sentiment, but I think there is a healthy middle ground and really the right answer is for the owner of the book to treat it however they feel brings them the most job.
- ZoomZoomZoom 4y ago
  > really the right answer is for the owner of the book to treat it however they feel brings them the most job That's not what the article said and thus not what I was arguing with. While I tend to agree with your statement, I just can't bring myself to seeing books as mere things.
sbaiddn 4y ago
"knowing how to wrap a book in a protective cover when you take it with you, " Did you grow up in a poor country? My mom used to do that when I was a kid. After we moved to N America I only saw it done once. Its actually quite lovely.
- stametseater 4y ago
  When I was a kid my mother used to help me wrap all my textbooks, although we didn't do that with other books. It seemed typical at the time (in America btw) but it might be a dying practice as textbooks go digital and schools give kids ipads instead.
  - pessimizer 4y ago

huijzer 4y ago

I couldn’t agree more. I listen to multiple audiobooks sort of intermittently plus multiple podcasts and it’s great to have such a mess. It’s about processing the information. What’s the point of reading a book if you don’t plan to remember it! Even fiction should be memorable I hope

cardanome 4y ago

Books are expensive. Sure, I am currently earning enough money to be able to afford messing up my books if I wanted to but it feels so wasteful. Feels so weird to purposely vandalize your own stuff. I prefer making notes in a separate medium and keeping my books clean. I like being able to gift or sell my books to other people. Plus, I might want to re-read them and I really dislike having any annotations in them. I feel like it would stop me from having a "fresh read".

cocacola1 4y ago
I feel the opposite. Writing in a book is the final step in really making it mine. Not writing in it seems to be an insult to the author, that what they wrote isn't important enough to engage with (though some are that bad).
- pedrosbmartins 4y ago
  It seems you are mistaking the actual book (a story, an exposition of a subject, etc.) for the printed set of cover and pages, which is only a physical instance of the book itself. Writing your notes in a separate medium is just as much engaging with the book as writing in the margins of a physical copy. It's a matter of taste really, but definitely not an insult to the author!
- cardanome 4y ago
  How did you grow up that you could develop that habit though? Thinking about my childhood, the vast majority of the books I read were from libraries. School books were also all lend from school. Sure, I also owned plenty of books myself but my parents would have been pretty pissed if I vandalized them as my siblings might want to read them. For me books where always something to share not something to own. Never got the need to make them "my own".
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    I take pride in not making them my own, and that other people will have them after I'm dead, and the books will be theirs. I've been taking care of some books for 40 years now. Plenty of those I got because someone else took care of them for 40 years before me. If anything, I feel guilty when I accidentally buy bad books that no one in the future would want to read. Honestly, when people who take care of their things die, it's like an explosion of wealth. The things in my place range from the mid-19th century to today. If you let people pick through my shit and take something that looks cool, my death could result in 1000 smiles. edit: I even take care of the things that I've made. They're no doubt mine, but some of those things will make someone else just as happy as they've made me.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

Is this a good time to mention I replaced my library with a kindle some time ago? ^^ (Someone was going to say it.)

themadturk 4y ago
I've done much the same, though the books that have been most important to me over the years I have hardbound copies of. But I don't have enough room in my apartment for all the books I own, and have read. Kindle and related devices have effectively infinite capacity.

the_af 4y ago

If you scribble one of my books, I'll kill you. I don't understand people who do this. Other than that, I agree that books want to be handled. I read a lot of books and I also re-read a lot, and my books look worn. I also accept bending pages to remember where you left the story; I never have bookmarks handy. But scribbling? No, you're banned from my house.

cocacola1 4y ago
This seems to be about scribbling in your own books though, not someone elses.
- iamerroragent 4y ago
  Writing in the margins is a thing I believe many a scribe has done for many generations It's recognized as a study aid. Especially if you're re-reading or studying a lot of material on a subject and need to go back. You can easily see what your past self was thinking or maybe quickly find a part you found interesting. It's fundamentally useful to write up your own books.
  - the_af 4y ago
    I never found useful to write up my own books. I find it ruins them for other people, too.
    - iamerroragent 4y ago
      Suit yourself. It is just one tool among many for the acquisition and retention of knowledge. I like used books with notes in it. It's interesting to see what someone previously reading felt was important or to glimpse into the past life of book itself.
      - throw_away1525 4y ago
        This made me remember a time I checked a book out from the library and found lots of little notes written in Chinese characters in the margins throughout the book. Most if not all were, I assume, translations of words. It was quite nice - they had wonderful penmanship.

lfciv 4y ago

My personal take is books read better when they're "read". That is, when they've been used time and again. I tried switching to Kindle, but I found that I read less.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
My pepere has a worn copy of On the Road by Kerouac near his chair that he often opens to an random page and begins reading.
- lfciv 4y ago
  Funny I sometimes do the same with my copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

cocacola1 4y ago

The only books I do treat pristinely are those from the library – then, I write on a different page, as well as special copies e.g. I have an annotated and illustrated The Hobbit, as well as an old paperback. The latter would be written in. But for books I own, I almost always annotate, highlight, mark up, write in, etc. however I want. I forgot who said it – probably Mortimer J. Adler – but writing in a book and engaging with it is the highest compliment you can pay to an author. T

DDayMace 4y ago

I think it really depends on the book, type of printing and its purpose. You might have a first edition you never open and read the kindle instead, have a cheap paperback for the beach that has sand and water wrinkles, or you might have a well used out of print tech book that you are gentle with in the hopes it will last longer than you do. If someone wants a display quality hardback to line their living room bookshelf to impress guests or accent their video meeting background, so what? Life is too short to read everything. Read what keeps your interest, page by page. If a book bores you, don't finish it. Sell it, give it to a friend, drop it off at goodwill, let it gather dust. So what? Just my two cents.

oweiler 4y ago

Me and my son had a lot of fun "reading" this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/428862.Wreck_This_Journal https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/428862.Wreck_This_Journa...

slickdork 4y ago

When I was a teen, I heard an author say they loved signing clearly well worn copies of their books. Not only did it mean it was not likely going to be resold, but it also meant it was well loved. I've always treated my books roughly since then. I always carry a paperback in my back pocket, and it's often margin written and beer stained. My favorite books get the worst treatment.

sakras 4y ago

People who write in books: what do you write? I remember being forced to write on sticky notes in high school, and trying several times afterwards, and I just don’t get it. I see the phrase “engaging with the writing” thrown around by proponents. What does “engaging” mean here? In regards to letting books get scuffed up, I must say I disagree as well. I like to keep all of my things shiny and new, and my books are no exception.

japhyr 4y ago
I have a few different ways of marking up a text. In one approach, I make a small vertical line in the margin next to a line I find significant. Sometimes that vertical line extends down a few lines to mark a longer passage. If it's really important, I add a second line, and sometimes I'll even add a third line. For many books, this is just a way of mentally noting something and letting it go enough to move on. But if I end up wanting to write a review of a book (usually a blog post, not a bookstore review), I just skim through these marked up sections. That's usually enough to guide my write up. The triple-marked sections usually end up quoted in the review. I also write a capital R in the margin next to things I'd like to research further. Sometimes I put a question mark next to a section I'm skeptical of.
skydhash 4y ago
Engaging means thinking about the author’s words as in you’re in a debate/discussion. You may agree, but notice something you need to research more about. You may disagree and not down why you do. You may want to summarize the point he is making. You may want to link it to another work. For myself, I don’t really do it if I’m new to the subject, maybe a few lines about each chapter. But once I’ve read a few different books, I’m starting to form my own opinion or try to link concepts across books. This is what my notes are about.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Why would you write those notes in the book? To find the note, you'd have to find the thing you were writing the note about (i.e. the passage on the page), so then what do you need the note for?

exmadscientist 4y ago

In fact, everything should be treated this way. Yes, you shouldn't abuse stuff (which is a very fine line -- sometimes being very harsh on a tool can save your ass, is that abuse or just the tool rising to the occasion?), but it's always meant to be used. Objects fall into two categories: 1. Things meant to be preserved so future generations can have them, just as you have them now. 2. Things meant to be used. (A third category, things meant to appreciate in value, is so close to #1 that it's not worth separating out.) Use your stuff. That's what it's for. Who do you respect more, the mechanic with a toolbox full of pristine tools without a single scratch, or the one with a box full of battered, dinged-up tools? This article's library full of factory-new books, or one full of creased, dog-eared, broken-spined books? Which child's toy had the better life, the one that's indistinguishable from new or the one that's indistinguishable from a pile of scraps and fluff? Use. Your. Stuff. It's what it's for.

GlumWoodpecker 4y ago
Category 3: Anything that isn't disposable or a tool. Most stuff can be of value to others once you are done using it. I treat all my stuff with care, because some day I might want to sell it, or give it away to someone. Whether it's a book, electronics, kitchenware, or furniture doesn't really matter; The value of the item (in money or in usefulness to the recipient) will always be higher the better condition something is in. You also are less likely to have to buy replacement items if you are careful with them in the first place. I agree in that you shouldn't treat everything like porcelain, but there is definitely value in treating your things with care.
pessimizer 4y ago
I think you meant for 2, "Things meant to be used up." You use the things in category 1, too. For me, category one includes all of my books. Category two consists almost entirely of food, cleaning and hygiene products, and most bedding and underwear. I got most of my books after they had been purchased and probably read, I don't know why I should assume I was the end of the line. [edit: I mean, I have books and things that I know have had multiple owners; I've got books from Bell Labs' library that were lent out a few dozen times and touched by many more hands. Why should I scribble in them and treat them like shit again? Instead of treating them like shit, I'd rather just destroy them in a careful scanning process.] > Who do you respect more, the mechanic with a toolbox full of pristine tools without a single scratch, or the one with a box full of battered, dinged-up tools? If by "respect" you mean would rather hire, I'd rather hire the third guy with the well-used, very well-taken care of tools. Why would I hire a slob that isn't maintaining their equipment?

Ferret7446 4y ago

I think we should break down this topic further. One of the key contention points is whether one respects the book/author by keeping the book pristine vs marking it (or whether the book as a physical object deserves respect). This is purely subjective, and has a historical precedent. Books used to be freaking expensive, so of course you would want to preserve it. Now, most books can be printed cheaply, but some people still like to keep their possessions clean. There are many other examples of this divide, like how people use their tools, pots, kitchens, cars, laptops, etc. The other is whether actively engaging with the book helps with understanding and recall. I don't think there is much disagreement on this point, but this does not require marking the physical book. You can use post-it notes and such, but in the digital age, arguably marking a physical book is inferior to annotating a digital copy and cross-hyperlinking it with other books and your personal knowledge base. Unfortunately both the technology and copyright law is lacking in this area as far as I'm aware, but rather than debating whether to write in physical books, I think everyone would benefit from innovating on the digital side of things.

igloo_ghost 4y ago
I make highlights in Calibre and export them as markdown to make it part of my knowledge management system

examplary_cable 4y ago

Has anyone here heart of "incremental reading"? The concept of breaking a book into "chunks" and then individually scheduling those chunks to be read via an spaced repetition algorithm. The thing is that incremental reading is much harder to do with physical books. And you would have to either calculate the next schedule(hard) or use a simple leinter box system(loss of efficiency). I wonder if normal reading is this "pristine" reading and incremental reading being the "messy" reading.

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cafard 4y ago
When Norman Mailer died, some item in the paper said that he was known for taking books apart into pieces that were easier to manage. Whether these were his own novels, or those of other writers, I don't remember. But no, I had not heard of incremental reading in this sense. So after reading the section on regular languages in the Cinderella book one would reread it before moving on to context-free languages?

gerdesj 4y ago

The article does not capitalize all the words in its title. Reading is in Berkshire, reading is a gerund.

thenerdhead 4y ago

Some books are not good enough to be messy with. But those that are good enough are either scribbled in everywhere or left in pristine condition while taking notes elsewhere to not disgrace the masterpiece.

tpoacher 4y ago

I couldn't disagree more with this article. In fact, every time I see someone grab a book in perfect condition off a shelf and then proceed to crack the spine as if it's some sort of required ritual before even considering whether to read the book, I feel like I die a bit inside.

DHPersonal 4y ago

I try to keep my books pristine and even try to fix damaged elements of them because they’re so precious, not because they’re jewels. I don’t open the spines to their cracking point, or bend a page, or write in them, or get their covers all fingerprinty because I value the book and want it to last a long time. To treat it poorly by doing all the things the author claims are nearly essential is to degrade the life of the book and rid me of its pleasures sooner than I’d like.

stiglitz 4y ago

One time at a coffee shop, I saw a woman carefully highlighting, line by line, essentially an entire page of a book she was reading. This doesn’t strike me as mindful behavior.