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> 1. Accept that professions come and go. 2. Expect jobs to disappear every decade or so and plan accordingly. 3. Look forward to an awesome new job after your

> 1. Accept that professions come and go. 2. Expect jobs to disappear every decade or so and plan accordingly. 3. Look forward to an awesome new job after your current one is made obsolete. That goes for all of us. What can we do? Hope to save enough to not go into more debt for a second degree? Hope that second degree isn’t obsoleted either? As AI becomes more advanced the minimum education and likely IQ required to even get a job that pays above minimum wage will increase. What are we gonna do about the ever increasing N+1% of people who won’t be cost effective versus an AI?

Turskarama 4y ago
The solution is the same one we should have had from the start: take some of the responsibility from peoples careers off individuals and place it on society. As mentioned above, this has always been a problem it's just that now it's a problem for intellectual careers and not just laborers. Education (and re-education) should be at least affordable if not completely free. Unemployment benefits should be enough to live on (if not well) and be freely available to anyone getting an education. If that is "too expensive" then limit it to specific educations which are currently in short supply. And lastly, tax income from investments exactly the same as income from labour. This part is actually necessary because if automation is a future we actually want (and we should!) then this will increasingly become the _only_ form of income.
- junofan 4y ago
  You’re taking a central planner’s view of a decentralized system. You can’t say “here’s a problem; let’s just make it go away.” We are going to print so much money. I don’t see how bumping up capital gains taxes are going to change anything. People will plow extra help into speculative bubbles. Casino thesis.
  - anonyfox 4y ago
    How about striding for one of the core societal values that make many advanced democraties (including the European nordics) so much better/happier than the US? It’s called Equality. Insert strong progressive taxes, especially on wealth, and use it to fund a strong public sector, so _everyone_ has as access to basic goods and services for free, like education/health/transport/… . I think you vastly underestimate how much money is the rich have siphoned from society, what do you think that printed money goes to? The change impact would be _massive_, suddenly people would have disposable money instead of crushing debts, nd actually stimulate the economy!
    - jokethrowaway 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - danjac 4y ago
        Um...Python, C++, Linux, Erlang, mobile phones (Nokia), Spotify, HTML... Having worked for both European and US companies, I would say that a) innovation is mutual (we learn from each other) and talent/mediocrity are pretty much evenly distributed. The US has a more "dynamic" economy in some sense - for example the VC ecosystem is far better funded - but is detrimental in others (Byzantine health care system deters would-be entrepreneurs).
        roenxi 4y ago
        And yet if we take a snapshot literally right now: Guido van Rossum - Microsoft Distinguished Engineer Bjarne Stroustrup - professor of Computer Science at Columbia University (City of New York) Linus Torvalds - Nationality American/US since 2010 (should I write GNU/American/US? Someone educate me). Erlang - I don't know anything about Erlang so I've got nothing to say. Nokia - brutally ejected from the market by the Americans, bought out and sepukku-ed under Microsoft leadership. Now phones may as well be an Asian technology. Oversaw the collapse of European leadership in the mobile space, to the point where it is going to be a case study in how to fail at innovation. Spotify - Leading EU tech success story. Makes up 50% of the counterexamples, along with ASML. Not detectable as a serious tech company when compared to Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc, etc. HTML - I mean, we'd probably have managed without the Europeans on this one. Although useful, HTML isn't a very technical accomplishment. Anyone could invent this, including most CS undergrads.
        anonyfox 4y ago
        You are not wrong but also forgot the reasons… Most stuff you cheer here is basically a few tech giants out of Silicon Valley. The science kickstart for all that came from a bunch of scientists (like Von neumann) you got when winning WW2 from europe. In a time when many potential competitors were still rebuilding from ruins. This is over now, europeans tend to no longer go to the us but still produce excellent scientists, Asian countries catched up and both continents start to leave the US behind in most aspects as a desirable place to live, except for 2 things: Military power and billionaires. Enjoy your 5 tech giants while they last, but also keep in mind that these are international now and draw from nonamerican intellectual power also.
  - lwhi 4y ago
    Distribution of capital.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bitwize 4y ago
Socialism. The answer is socialism. AI is a philosopher's stone that transmutes labor into capital. This is as good as lead into gold for capitalists, but the rest of us are hosed.
- bennysonething 4y ago
  How many times do we have to try socialism before we're convinced it doesn't work? Or maybe you mean something like Nordic countries that are capitalist but tax more heavily and redistribute wealth more?
  - broken_thesis 4y ago
    That magical Nordic system is called "social democracy", it's of course rooted in socialism, and it's so old that one of the first dark memes amongst left-wing groups ("You killed Rose Luxemburg!) is about them.
    - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
      It's strange how those who say the Nordics aren't really socialist will be the first to dismiss their policies as socialist when they're suggested for the US.
      - bennysonething 4y ago
        They have free markets and businesses, doesn't sound like a socialist system to me.
        IX-103 4y ago
        You're thinking of Communism. Socialism doesn't imply government ownership and control of the economy.
        bitwize 4y ago
fxtentacle 4y ago
> What are we gonna do about the ever increasing N+1% of people who won’t be cost effective versus an AI? Fairly tax companies' profits. And then you can afford to just feed 10% of society even if they don't contribute a thing. Also, free world-class education seems to do wonders in Europe ;)
- fullsend 4y ago
  That is step 6. Step 1 is “fundamentally change how modern Capitalism considers making money the only moral good.” It will collapse first.
- megaman821 4y ago
  Low corporate tax is fine. Fairly tax the recipients of those profits. Warren Buffet should pay more on his share of Apple's profit than some retiree with Apple in their portfolio. A large corporate tax ends up being regressive.
asah 4y ago
What about jobs that take years of training? We need them done...
jokethrowaway 4y ago
> What are we gonna do about the ever increasing N+1% of people who won’t be cost effective versus an AI? Their quality of life will increase because of all the cheap stuff we can make with ai and robots. They will coexist and compete with robots. Upward mobility should be better, given the access to advanced technology. Worst case scenario, they can all band together outside of the advanced civilisation, grow their food and live a separate life. There is no need to make high iq people to pay for low iq to live in a high iq society. We're already seeing a divide of cities for rich people and cities for poor people. It will just be more pronounced.
- Epa095 4y ago
  > Their quality of life will increase because of all the cheap stuff we can make with ai and robots. Ahh, the old "modern poor people are better off than medevial kings since we have microwaves and supercomputers in our pockets". No matter that they are all stressed, living paycheck to paycheck and a single (treatable) disease from crippling debt.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    > single (treatable) disease from crippling debt. This sounds a lot better than being a single (treatable) disease from guaranteed death? Which many, many, historical monarchs experienced. At least some fraction of such monarchs would have gladly taken the opportunity to swap places if they had known in advance.
    - antifa 4y ago
      > This sounds a lot better than You can justify pretty much any horrible thing with "sounds better than a torment nexus"
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        What's a 'torment nexus'?
- 4y ago

Turskarama 4y ago

The solution is the same one we should have had from the start: take some of the responsibility from peoples careers off individuals and place it on society. As mentioned above, this has always been a problem it's just that now it's a problem for intellectual careers and not just laborers. Education (and re-education) should be at least affordable if not completely free. Unemployment benefits should be enough to live on (if not well) and be freely available to anyone getting an education. If that is "too expensive" then limit it to specific educations which are currently in short supply. And lastly, tax income from investments exactly the same as income from labour. This part is actually necessary because if automation is a future we actually want (and we should!) then this will increasingly become the _only_ form of income.

junofan 4y ago
You’re taking a central planner’s view of a decentralized system. You can’t say “here’s a problem; let’s just make it go away.” We are going to print so much money. I don’t see how bumping up capital gains taxes are going to change anything. People will plow extra help into speculative bubbles. Casino thesis.
- anonyfox 4y ago
  How about striding for one of the core societal values that make many advanced democraties (including the European nordics) so much better/happier than the US? It’s called Equality. Insert strong progressive taxes, especially on wealth, and use it to fund a strong public sector, so _everyone_ has as access to basic goods and services for free, like education/health/transport/… . I think you vastly underestimate how much money is the rich have siphoned from society, what do you think that printed money goes to? The change impact would be _massive_, suddenly people would have disposable money instead of crushing debts, nd actually stimulate the economy!
  - jokethrowaway 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - danjac 4y ago
      Um...Python, C++, Linux, Erlang, mobile phones (Nokia), Spotify, HTML... Having worked for both European and US companies, I would say that a) innovation is mutual (we learn from each other) and talent/mediocrity are pretty much evenly distributed. The US has a more "dynamic" economy in some sense - for example the VC ecosystem is far better funded - but is detrimental in others (Byzantine health care system deters would-be entrepreneurs).
      - roenxi 4y ago
        And yet if we take a snapshot literally right now: Guido van Rossum - Microsoft Distinguished Engineer Bjarne Stroustrup - professor of Computer Science at Columbia University (City of New York) Linus Torvalds - Nationality American/US since 2010 (should I write GNU/American/US? Someone educate me). Erlang - I don't know anything about Erlang so I've got nothing to say. Nokia - brutally ejected from the market by the Americans, bought out and sepukku-ed under Microsoft leadership. Now phones may as well be an Asian technology. Oversaw the collapse of European leadership in the mobile space, to the point where it is going to be a case study in how to fail at innovation. Spotify - Leading EU tech success story. Makes up 50% of the counterexamples, along with ASML. Not detectable as a serious tech company when compared to Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc, etc. HTML - I mean, we'd probably have managed without the Europeans on this one. Although useful, HTML isn't a very technical accomplishment. Anyone could invent this, including most CS undergrads.
        anonyfox 4y ago
        You are not wrong but also forgot the reasons… Most stuff you cheer here is basically a few tech giants out of Silicon Valley. The science kickstart for all that came from a bunch of scientists (like Von neumann) you got when winning WW2 from europe. In a time when many potential competitors were still rebuilding from ruins. This is over now, europeans tend to no longer go to the us but still produce excellent scientists, Asian countries catched up and both continents start to leave the US behind in most aspects as a desirable place to live, except for 2 things: Military power and billionaires. Enjoy your 5 tech giants while they last, but also keep in mind that these are international now and draw from nonamerican intellectual power also.
- lwhi 4y ago
  Distribution of capital.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

bitwize 4y ago

Socialism. The answer is socialism. AI is a philosopher's stone that transmutes labor into capital. This is as good as lead into gold for capitalists, but the rest of us are hosed.

bennysonething 4y ago
How many times do we have to try socialism before we're convinced it doesn't work? Or maybe you mean something like Nordic countries that are capitalist but tax more heavily and redistribute wealth more?
- broken_thesis 4y ago
  That magical Nordic system is called "social democracy", it's of course rooted in socialism, and it's so old that one of the first dark memes amongst left-wing groups ("You killed Rose Luxemburg!) is about them.
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    It's strange how those who say the Nordics aren't really socialist will be the first to dismiss their policies as socialist when they're suggested for the US.
    - bennysonething 4y ago
      They have free markets and businesses, doesn't sound like a socialist system to me.
      - IX-103 4y ago
        You're thinking of Communism. Socialism doesn't imply government ownership and control of the economy.
        bitwize 4y ago

fxtentacle 4y ago

> What are we gonna do about the ever increasing N+1% of people who won’t be cost effective versus an AI? Fairly tax companies' profits. And then you can afford to just feed 10% of society even if they don't contribute a thing. Also, free world-class education seems to do wonders in Europe ;)

fullsend 4y ago
That is step 6. Step 1 is “fundamentally change how modern Capitalism considers making money the only moral good.” It will collapse first.
megaman821 4y ago
Low corporate tax is fine. Fairly tax the recipients of those profits. Warren Buffet should pay more on his share of Apple's profit than some retiree with Apple in their portfolio. A large corporate tax ends up being regressive.

asah 4y ago

What about jobs that take years of training? We need them done...

jokethrowaway 4y ago

> What are we gonna do about the ever increasing N+1% of people who won’t be cost effective versus an AI? Their quality of life will increase because of all the cheap stuff we can make with ai and robots. They will coexist and compete with robots. Upward mobility should be better, given the access to advanced technology. Worst case scenario, they can all band together outside of the advanced civilisation, grow their food and live a separate life. There is no need to make high iq people to pay for low iq to live in a high iq society. We're already seeing a divide of cities for rich people and cities for poor people. It will just be more pronounced.

Epa095 4y ago
> Their quality of life will increase because of all the cheap stuff we can make with ai and robots. Ahh, the old "modern poor people are better off than medevial kings since we have microwaves and supercomputers in our pockets". No matter that they are all stressed, living paycheck to paycheck and a single (treatable) disease from crippling debt.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  > single (treatable) disease from crippling debt. This sounds a lot better than being a single (treatable) disease from guaranteed death? Which many, many, historical monarchs experienced. At least some fraction of such monarchs would have gladly taken the opportunity to swap places if they had known in advance.
  - antifa 4y ago
    > This sounds a lot better than You can justify pretty much any horrible thing with "sounds better than a torment nexus"
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      What's a 'torment nexus'?
4y ago