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What's the solution when so much knowledge work is upended at once? When manufacturing jobs were lost, we callously told people to go to college to learn to lea

What's the solution when so much knowledge work is upended at once? When manufacturing jobs were lost, we callously told people to go to college to learn to learn IT. Whether it's art, code, marketing, or other applied knowledge work, there's a mad dash to reshape all of those. And the sales pitch isn't that it's going to let us work less and equitably reap the rewards of productivity (well, I suppose if you lose your job you get to work less). It's that as a business you can do more with less to increase profitability. Quality might take a hit, but there's an inflection point for that. If sales drop but you reduce your labor costs enough, you still come out ahead. What field are all of these nail makers supposed to switch to this time?

scotty79 4y ago
Universal basic income is always the answer. Since progress bringsuch unpredictability to labor market we need to detach survival from labor so people can survive while they are figuring the stuff out.
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  universal basic income is not sustainable in the same way minimum wage was not sustainable, looking as how even $15/hr isn't enough to cover rent basically anywhere where they actually pay $15/hr.
  - Kelamir 4y ago
    Universal basic rent :)
  - scotty79 4y ago
    > minimum wage was not sustainable I'm not sure what do you intend this word to mean. Minimum wage is sustained in many countries for many years. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/minimum-wage-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/minimum-w... > looking as how even $15/hr isn't enough to cover rent basically anywhere where they actually pay $15/hr That's a bit different problem. What UBI could do is let people migrate away from very expensive places because they would no longer fear they'll become destitute if they risk not being able to get a job in cheaper place.
    - zajio1am 4y ago
      Minimum wage is sustainable because it is usually set based on economic reality of each country to a value that affects just a small percentage of laborers.
      - scotty79 4y ago
        In Poland it's nearing 20% of laborers. In US statewide minimum wage of 15$ would be and improvement for 1/3 of the labor force.
        zajio1am 4y ago
        According to : https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Proportion_of_employees_earning_less_than_105_%25_of_the_minimum_wage,_2018_(%25).png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... It is about 12% in Poland (2018) and in most countries from the link it was less than 10%.
        scotty79 4y ago
        However it's not 2018 anymore. It's now almost 20% Thanks for the link though. I tried to find such chart and I failed. I guess there's no point of discussing what is and what isn't small.
- whitemary 4y ago
  More like Universal Basic Capital
jatins 4y ago
In a world where AI makes most of the things/services, wouldn't everything be so cheap that most people can afford it on something like UBI?
- 7speter 4y ago
  Not when all the marine life dies off because the oceans are too acidic and wrecks all sorts of havoc on above land eco systems.
  - jatins 4y ago
    ...how does the Marine Life die in this scenario?
    - 7speter 4y ago
      Which scenario are you referring to? The one where everything is cheap because of ai or because the acidic oceans? Various sea organisms rely on calcium carbonate for the formation of their shells and bones. If the water is too acidic there less calcium carbonate in the water…
    - 7speter 4y ago
      Oh and what Im getting at is that things like food don’t necessarily have to be cheap because “ai” produces goods. Ecological collapse can make essentials expensive regardless of who produces the goods.
- zokier 4y ago
  In theory yes, in practice that'd require some way to channel the profits from the tech back to society, which has proven tough nut to crack. Notoriously Keynes predicted 15 hour workweeks due the productivity improvements of 20th century. Well, the improvements happened but work weeks didn't get shorter
  - revelio 4y ago
    They got shorter in practice. Especially post-lockdowns lots of people are phoning it in to well paid jobs whilst working from home with Netflix on, taking long lunches, playing with the kids and then doing unchallenging work like meetings with other people who are also phoning it in. Yes they "work" 40 hours a week in theory but this sort of work would have seemed completely alien to someone in Keynes' era.
juvvel 4y ago
This is what I wonder as well. We are told to "prepare" for the reality of AI taking our jobs soon, but how? What is the alternative field that will be a) safe from automation for a while and b) pay similarly to a CS/IT career? I haven't found the answer to this. We were told to get a higher education and go into "white collar" fields, and now we're told we were stupid for believing that these jobs would have a future. Seems very cynical.

scotty79 4y ago

Universal basic income is always the answer. Since progress bringsuch unpredictability to labor market we need to detach survival from labor so people can survive while they are figuring the stuff out.

LesZedCB 4y ago
universal basic income is not sustainable in the same way minimum wage was not sustainable, looking as how even $15/hr isn't enough to cover rent basically anywhere where they actually pay $15/hr.
- Kelamir 4y ago
  Universal basic rent :)
- scotty79 4y ago
  > minimum wage was not sustainable I'm not sure what do you intend this word to mean. Minimum wage is sustained in many countries for many years. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/minimum-wage-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/minimum-w... > looking as how even $15/hr isn't enough to cover rent basically anywhere where they actually pay $15/hr That's a bit different problem. What UBI could do is let people migrate away from very expensive places because they would no longer fear they'll become destitute if they risk not being able to get a job in cheaper place.
  - zajio1am 4y ago
    Minimum wage is sustainable because it is usually set based on economic reality of each country to a value that affects just a small percentage of laborers.
    - scotty79 4y ago
      In Poland it's nearing 20% of laborers. In US statewide minimum wage of 15$ would be and improvement for 1/3 of the labor force.
      - zajio1am 4y ago
        According to : https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Proportion_of_employees_earning_less_than_105_%25_of_the_minimum_wage,_2018_(%25).png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... It is about 12% in Poland (2018) and in most countries from the link it was less than 10%.
        scotty79 4y ago
        However it's not 2018 anymore. It's now almost 20% Thanks for the link though. I tried to find such chart and I failed. I guess there's no point of discussing what is and what isn't small.
whitemary 4y ago
More like Universal Basic Capital

jatins 4y ago

In a world where AI makes most of the things/services, wouldn't everything be so cheap that most people can afford it on something like UBI?

7speter 4y ago
Not when all the marine life dies off because the oceans are too acidic and wrecks all sorts of havoc on above land eco systems.
- jatins 4y ago
  ...how does the Marine Life die in this scenario?
  - 7speter 4y ago
    Which scenario are you referring to? The one where everything is cheap because of ai or because the acidic oceans? Various sea organisms rely on calcium carbonate for the formation of their shells and bones. If the water is too acidic there less calcium carbonate in the water…
  - 7speter 4y ago
    Oh and what Im getting at is that things like food don’t necessarily have to be cheap because “ai” produces goods. Ecological collapse can make essentials expensive regardless of who produces the goods.
zokier 4y ago
In theory yes, in practice that'd require some way to channel the profits from the tech back to society, which has proven tough nut to crack. Notoriously Keynes predicted 15 hour workweeks due the productivity improvements of 20th century. Well, the improvements happened but work weeks didn't get shorter
- revelio 4y ago
  They got shorter in practice. Especially post-lockdowns lots of people are phoning it in to well paid jobs whilst working from home with Netflix on, taking long lunches, playing with the kids and then doing unchallenging work like meetings with other people who are also phoning it in. Yes they "work" 40 hours a week in theory but this sort of work would have seemed completely alien to someone in Keynes' era.

juvvel 4y ago

This is what I wonder as well. We are told to "prepare" for the reality of AI taking our jobs soon, but how? What is the alternative field that will be a) safe from automation for a while and b) pay similarly to a CS/IT career? I haven't found the answer to this. We were told to get a higher education and go into "white collar" fields, and now we're told we were stupid for believing that these jobs would have a future. Seems very cynical.