4 ms·

From other comments, it seems the definition is not "what you assume is a social media app" but "any service with over 5 million users that facilitates chat via

by judge2020 4y ago

From other comments, it seems the definition is not "what you assume is a social media app" but "any service with over 5 million users that facilitates chat via posts". I am 99% certain this includes Hacker News, Steam, probably also bugs.chromium.org and bugzilla.mozilla.org, and maybe even any website that allows user comments if they happen to have over 5 million users.

deleted 4y ago
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PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> From other comments, it seems the definition is not "what you assume is a social media app" but "any service with over 5 million users that facilitates chat via posts". It's baffling to read all the HN comments encouraging draconian restrictions and forced PII collection on websites, all with the assumption that it will only apply to websites I don't like. Laws like this, if enforced, would make a lot of the sites you use on a daily basis require strict ID verification. Are you really ready to be doing the ID verification dance with GitHub, Reddit, Hacker News and every other big site on the internet just to post? Of course not. You're going to sign up for a VPN and use it, just like all of the 17 year old kids who just want to use the internet like normal people.
- vxNsr 4y ago
  I welcome it. Breaking the way the internet is used these days would be a huge win for society as a whole no matter how painful it might look at first.
  - hooverd 4y ago
    You want full corporate control and mandatory remote attestation on your devices to comply with these laws?
    - FredPret 4y ago
      Some people love being controlled
    - lucaspfeifer 4y ago
      There are benefits to reducing anonymity: accountability, trust, relationships, etc. It's why humans evolved to recognize faces so well. We decide who to trust based on experience. It doesn't matter who controls the identification process, so long as its done fairly. And if corporations or government misuse identification for self-serving purposes, we should certainly push back.
      - data_maan 4y ago
        There are also downsides to reducing anonymity - many more than benefits.
        swexbe 4y ago
        Like what?
        pavel_lishin 4y ago
        Two off the top of my head: - Chilling effect on political discussions. Good luck campaigning to overturn these laws if you can't do so without fear of reprisal from government officials or your local community. - Limiting the ability for marginalized groups to seek support; LGBTQ youth, ex-mormons, etc., would be directly harmed by this.
        lucaspfeifer 4y ago
        Political discussions should be open and transparent. If there is reprisal for well-intentioned statements, proportional action should be taken to stop the reprisal. Though it is nice to allow various beliefs, it is more important to have a cohesive community, even if it means sacrificing some personal beliefs. Personal values should line up with community values. If they are in contradiction, an open discussion should be had to realign them.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  I support it because I want to see the Silicon Slopes destroyed and young people abandoning Utah.
- throwaway-blaze 4y ago
  The sponsors of this bill are likely less worried about the 17yr olds who can hack around the restrictions. They're more worried about 12 and 13yr olds who are attempting suicide and experiencing mental health crises at a rate that far exceeds any previous time.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    The problem is the loss of privacy for all users. They will be forced to verify the identity of every user to do business in Utah, so you can either expect third parties like Stripe (with their Identity product) to get richer or an increase in leaks and hacks containing tons of driver's licenses.
hra5th 4y ago
I would be surprised if bugzilla.mozzila.org has over 5 million users

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> From other comments, it seems the definition is not "what you assume is a social media app" but "any service with over 5 million users that facilitates chat via posts". It's baffling to read all the HN comments encouraging draconian restrictions and forced PII collection on websites, all with the assumption that it will only apply to websites I don't like. Laws like this, if enforced, would make a lot of the sites you use on a daily basis require strict ID verification. Are you really ready to be doing the ID verification dance with GitHub, Reddit, Hacker News and every other big site on the internet just to post? Of course not. You're going to sign up for a VPN and use it, just like all of the 17 year old kids who just want to use the internet like normal people.

vxNsr 4y ago
I welcome it. Breaking the way the internet is used these days would be a huge win for society as a whole no matter how painful it might look at first.
- hooverd 4y ago
  You want full corporate control and mandatory remote attestation on your devices to comply with these laws?
  - FredPret 4y ago
    Some people love being controlled
  - lucaspfeifer 4y ago
    There are benefits to reducing anonymity: accountability, trust, relationships, etc. It's why humans evolved to recognize faces so well. We decide who to trust based on experience. It doesn't matter who controls the identification process, so long as its done fairly. And if corporations or government misuse identification for self-serving purposes, we should certainly push back.
    - data_maan 4y ago
      There are also downsides to reducing anonymity - many more than benefits.
      - swexbe 4y ago
        Like what?
        pavel_lishin 4y ago
        Two off the top of my head: - Chilling effect on political discussions. Good luck campaigning to overturn these laws if you can't do so without fear of reprisal from government officials or your local community. - Limiting the ability for marginalized groups to seek support; LGBTQ youth, ex-mormons, etc., would be directly harmed by this.
        lucaspfeifer 4y ago
        Political discussions should be open and transparent. If there is reprisal for well-intentioned statements, proportional action should be taken to stop the reprisal. Though it is nice to allow various beliefs, it is more important to have a cohesive community, even if it means sacrificing some personal beliefs. Personal values should line up with community values. If they are in contradiction, an open discussion should be had to realign them.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
I support it because I want to see the Silicon Slopes destroyed and young people abandoning Utah.
throwaway-blaze 4y ago
The sponsors of this bill are likely less worried about the 17yr olds who can hack around the restrictions. They're more worried about 12 and 13yr olds who are attempting suicide and experiencing mental health crises at a rate that far exceeds any previous time.
- judge2020 4y ago
  The problem is the loss of privacy for all users. They will be forced to verify the identity of every user to do business in Utah, so you can either expect third parties like Stripe (with their Identity product) to get richer or an increase in leaks and hacks containing tons of driver's licenses.

hra5th 4y ago

I would be surprised if bugzilla.mozzila.org has over 5 million users