> Ironically, some mysticisms like meditation (and perhaps even prayer) may even have a higher bar because they are a physically transformative competence akin

> Ironically, some mysticisms like meditation (and perhaps even prayer) may even have a higher bar because they are a physically transformative competence akin to practicing music The issue there is that while meditating leads to "something" happening for sure, almost nobody is going to stop to check if it's the right "something" and the teacher can't look inside your mind. So you might just have a mental breakdown then decide that's proof you're "enlightened". (Was going to quote David Chapman here but someone already did in this thread. But I mean, it's how most cults or New Agey religious groups start.)