5 ms·

"no link to myocarditis" (proved false, especially for young men" What is your definition of a lie? If there wasn't evidence of this when the statement was mad

"no link to myocarditis" (proved false, especially for young men" What is your definition of a lie? If there wasn't evidence of this when the statement was made then it's true.

operatingthetan 4y ago
Right, there seems to be a great many people out there that don't understand the implications of retrospective analysis of trufthfulness.
VagueMag 4y ago
The whole "there is no evidence, therefore the link doesn't exist" thing is an obvious grift. Simply never look for side effects (and attribute them to hysteria or anything else besides the shots when they do arise), and it's as though they never existed.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Is that what happened ? According to whatever it says there's only been about 1000 cases and most recover. You remind me of current conspiracy theorists who now attribute any death via a health condition to the vaccine. Show me evidence they ignored reasonable warnings or didn't move fast enough?
  - blueyoda 4y ago
    If you're comfortable with that, that is fine, I respect everyone's decisions for their own health. But what about those who do not recover? No one has the right to coerce another person to receive an irreversible medical treatment. Masks can be taken off - nothing against them personally. But can one "un"-vaccinate themselves? And why are people forced to vaccinate when natural immunity has been proven to be at least, if not more effective, than vaccination (from a peer-reviewed study published in the Lancet)? The argument is not whether the vaccine is good or bad. It's about respecting people's right to a choice. Japan did not mandate the COVID vaccine and actively discouraged such an approach. Would you claim they are anti-science? It's also important to consider what the former President of Australia's Medical Association has stated regarding the COVID jab: "the true rate of adverse events is far higher than acknowledged due to underreporting and “threats” from medical regulators"
    - themitigating 4y ago
      I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance
      - VagueMag 4y ago
        > The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.
      - blueyoda 4y ago
        78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?
        themitigating 4y ago
        - Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks
lern_too_spel 4y ago
Claiming that public health officials said there is no link to myocarditis is the lie. You've been duped. Try reading reputable news sources instead of conspiracy theory blogs.
- blueyoda 4y ago
  Straight from Reuters: NEW YORK, April 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not found a link between heart inflammation and COVID-19 vaccines, the agency’s Director Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday. "We have not seen a signal and we've actually looked intentionally for the signal in the over 200 million doses we've given," Walensky said in a press briefing.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    That same article says they were still investigating it, so anybody who isn't a conspiracy theorist trying to rewrite history would read that as "not seen a signal [yet]." > "It is a different demographic than we normally see and we will be working with DOD to understand what is happening in those 14 cases," Walensky said.
    - blueyoda 4y ago
      So they didn't know that it caused myocarditis or not - but they deemed it safe for rollout. Shouldn't this have been caught beforehand? How is it ethical to mandate a product whose risks are not even fully known yet? The big issue during the pandemic is that "no evidence that" was treated as "does not exist", especially by social media moderators. So I do agree with your point that the CDC did not explicitly state that such a link does not exist (thank you for pointing that out to me). However, there are times that the CDC was flat out wrong, such as when Walensky initially said that vaccinated individuals cannot spread COVID to others. One day they say the science is settled. The next day they say that science changes according to new data. If that's the case, then I would rather sit back and wait until the science gets settled. I will do my best and follow all recommended guidelines to keep others and myself healthy. However, I will not undergo an irreversible treatment without understanding the risks and accepting them by my free will (not coercion).

"no link to myocarditis" (proved false, especially for young men" What is your definition of a lie? If there wasn't evidence of this when the statement was made then it's true.

operatingthetan 4y ago

Right, there seems to be a great many people out there that don't understand the implications of retrospective analysis of trufthfulness.

VagueMag 4y ago

The whole "there is no evidence, therefore the link doesn't exist" thing is an obvious grift. Simply never look for side effects (and attribute them to hysteria or anything else besides the shots when they do arise), and it's as though they never existed.

themitigating 4y ago
Is that what happened ? According to whatever it says there's only been about 1000 cases and most recover. You remind me of current conspiracy theorists who now attribute any death via a health condition to the vaccine. Show me evidence they ignored reasonable warnings or didn't move fast enough?
- blueyoda 4y ago
  If you're comfortable with that, that is fine, I respect everyone's decisions for their own health. But what about those who do not recover? No one has the right to coerce another person to receive an irreversible medical treatment. Masks can be taken off - nothing against them personally. But can one "un"-vaccinate themselves? And why are people forced to vaccinate when natural immunity has been proven to be at least, if not more effective, than vaccination (from a peer-reviewed study published in the Lancet)? The argument is not whether the vaccine is good or bad. It's about respecting people's right to a choice. Japan did not mandate the COVID vaccine and actively discouraged such an approach. Would you claim they are anti-science? It's also important to consider what the former President of Australia's Medical Association has stated regarding the COVID jab: "the true rate of adverse events is far higher than acknowledged due to underreporting and “threats” from medical regulators"
  - themitigating 4y ago
    I don't respect people's decisions if it may affect others. The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance
    - VagueMag 4y ago
      > The countless money spent caring for people with Covid who might have required less care if they were vaccinated is one. Health care costs are amortized over the population through insurance This is a recipe for the worst, most intrusive kind of tyranny in the name of "biosecurity," but that's probably a feature and not a bug to the sort of person who is still advocating for COVID vaccine mandates at this late date. There are vast demographics of healthy young people at infinitesimal risk from COVID and much higher risk from the shots, for whom taking them actually raised their risk of being hospitalized. But the difference between you and me is, if I found out people required more medical care because of their unwise and ill-considered health choices, the last thing on earth that would occur to me would be to punish them with job losses, higher insurance premiums, and the like.
    - blueyoda 4y ago
      78% of individuals hospitalized for COVID were obese/overweight. In other words, people who eat too much were primarily responsible for overwhelming our health care system. What are your thoughts on them?
      - themitigating 4y ago
        - Gaining weight takes time and is the result of a continuous large number of bad decisions over a long period of time. Not getting vaccinated is a single decision - Losing weight requires a great deal of effort over a long period of time. Getting vaccinated is quick and easy - Weight gain can have factors that are difficult to control like mental illness, self control issues, and other things related to your emotions. I'm sure you'll agree that the vast majority of people who are overweight don't want to be overweight. Those who didn't get vaccinated wanted to not be vaccinated While you can argue anyone can lose weight, which I would agree with you, the amount of effort is extreme, otherwise I'm sure no one would be overweight. Therefore a person who is overweight has a heart attack deserves sympathy whereas a person who didn't get vaccinated* but ends up in the hospital because of Covid doesn't. * Assuming they could have gotten vaccinated, meaning no health issues or real risks

lern_too_spel 4y ago

Claiming that public health officials said there is no link to myocarditis is the lie. You've been duped. Try reading reputable news sources instead of conspiracy theory blogs.

blueyoda 4y ago
Straight from Reuters: NEW YORK, April 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not found a link between heart inflammation and COVID-19 vaccines, the agency’s Director Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday. "We have not seen a signal and we've actually looked intentionally for the signal in the over 200 million doses we've given," Walensky said in a press briefing.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  That same article says they were still investigating it, so anybody who isn't a conspiracy theorist trying to rewrite history would read that as "not seen a signal [yet]." > "It is a different demographic than we normally see and we will be working with DOD to understand what is happening in those 14 cases," Walensky said.
  - blueyoda 4y ago
    So they didn't know that it caused myocarditis or not - but they deemed it safe for rollout. Shouldn't this have been caught beforehand? How is it ethical to mandate a product whose risks are not even fully known yet? The big issue during the pandemic is that "no evidence that" was treated as "does not exist", especially by social media moderators. So I do agree with your point that the CDC did not explicitly state that such a link does not exist (thank you for pointing that out to me). However, there are times that the CDC was flat out wrong, such as when Walensky initially said that vaccinated individuals cannot spread COVID to others. One day they say the science is settled. The next day they say that science changes according to new data. If that's the case, then I would rather sit back and wait until the science gets settled. I will do my best and follow all recommended guidelines to keep others and myself healthy. However, I will not undergo an irreversible treatment without understanding the risks and accepting them by my free will (not coercion).