4 ms·

You are not literally a series of chemical reactions. There is no branch of science that claims so. In fact, we're very aware of our inability to define ourselv

You are not literally a series of chemical reactions. There is no branch of science that claims so. In fact, we're very aware of our inability to define ourselves, particularly the phenomenon of consciousness. Am I supposed to be impressed by a bunch of gibberish in languages I don't speak, and therefore can't verify?

ben_w 4y ago
You know about google translate, I assume? Anyway… -- Me: Respond to the following hacker news comment, give an answer in the style of Shakespeare: <I copy pasted your comment here> It: Hark! Thy words ring hollow as the empty air, Forsooth, to claim we're not but mere reaction, Is to ignore the science everywhere, And spout ignorance without true traction. Oft have philosophers and scientists sought, To fathom consciousness and all its might, A mystery still, with answers not yet wrought, But progress made through study and insight. And why must language be a barrier, To truth and knowledge we can all attain? By learning, we can all become carrier, Of wisdom, and our horizons expand again. Thus, I implore thee, don't dismiss with disdain, The knowledge that awaits in languages not plain. -- (HN messes up the formatting a bit; it was 4-4-2 lines in each group) I'm basically on board with what it says here. Consciousness may be a mystery, but everything we see points to substance monism, not Cartesian dualism. I take caffeine, a chemical, one thing happens to my mental experiences; alcohol, another chemical, a different thing; if I were to take THC or LSD or whatever, they too would have predictable effects on my mental state.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  > You know about google translate, I assume? You cannot be seriously suggesting that the quality of AI generated text be evaluated through the broken telephone of Google translate. That's absurd. > Forsooth, to claim we're not but mere reaction, aaand it already fucked up by the second verse. My comment clearly states that we are not mere reaction, yet this "AI" seems to think I claimed the exact opposite. You're proving my point, it's just guessing what word fits where, not understanding anything whatsoever and producing garbage as a result, that only seems intelligible to gullible fools. > if I were to take THC or LSD or whatever, they too would have predictable effects on my mental state. I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe the effects of LSD as "predictable". I'm guessing you've never actually taken it and are talking out of your ass.
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    >I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe the effects of LSD as "predictable". I'm guessing you've never actually taken it and are talking out of your ass. How is it not predictable? Varying degrees depending on dosage of hullucinations, euphoria, altered state of mind including altered senses of time, sound, vision, touch etc. This is how the effects of drugs are described by medicine and science. It seems as if you are ignoring this part of their statement "effects on my mental state." They aren't saying the content of the hallucination is predictable or anything like that.
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      "Varying degrees of altered state" doesn't equate to "predictable" in my mind, and I struggle to understand why it would to you. The effects of LSD are the contents of the hallucination - the actual state that is altered. "It alters your mental state" is not so much a prediction as it is an admission of lack of understanding. Everything alters your mental state. That's how your brain functions. If your mental state remained unchanged, you would be brain dead. The question is how it alters your mental state, and all the effects you clump under "hallucinations" are precisely the unpredictable contents. It's medsci for "we don't know".
      - operatingthetan 4y ago
        You misquoted me and then hyperfocused on the misquote. The changes from the drug are predictable because they wouldn't just randomly happen to you without the drug. >Everything alters your mental state. You are overgeneralizing to the point of absurdity and it does not appear that you are interested in a good-faith discussion. The contents of a hallucination and the experience of having a hallucination are distinct. Suggesting that the effect of LSD altering my mental state and me walking out my back door altering my mental state are the same because they both alter the state is absurd. You're obtusely ignoring intensity, impact, duration and that the hallucination and euphoria are different effects.
        4y ago

ben_w 4y ago

You know about google translate, I assume? Anyway… -- Me: Respond to the following hacker news comment, give an answer in the style of Shakespeare: <I copy pasted your comment here> It: Hark! Thy words ring hollow as the empty air, Forsooth, to claim we're not but mere reaction, Is to ignore the science everywhere, And spout ignorance without true traction. Oft have philosophers and scientists sought, To fathom consciousness and all its might, A mystery still, with answers not yet wrought, But progress made through study and insight. And why must language be a barrier, To truth and knowledge we can all attain? By learning, we can all become carrier, Of wisdom, and our horizons expand again. Thus, I implore thee, don't dismiss with disdain, The knowledge that awaits in languages not plain. -- (HN messes up the formatting a bit; it was 4-4-2 lines in each group) I'm basically on board with what it says here. Consciousness may be a mystery, but everything we see points to substance monism, not Cartesian dualism. I take caffeine, a chemical, one thing happens to my mental experiences; alcohol, another chemical, a different thing; if I were to take THC or LSD or whatever, they too would have predictable effects on my mental state.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
> You know about google translate, I assume? You cannot be seriously suggesting that the quality of AI generated text be evaluated through the broken telephone of Google translate. That's absurd. > Forsooth, to claim we're not but mere reaction, aaand it already fucked up by the second verse. My comment clearly states that we are not mere reaction, yet this "AI" seems to think I claimed the exact opposite. You're proving my point, it's just guessing what word fits where, not understanding anything whatsoever and producing garbage as a result, that only seems intelligible to gullible fools. > if I were to take THC or LSD or whatever, they too would have predictable effects on my mental state. I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe the effects of LSD as "predictable". I'm guessing you've never actually taken it and are talking out of your ass.
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  >I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe the effects of LSD as "predictable". I'm guessing you've never actually taken it and are talking out of your ass. How is it not predictable? Varying degrees depending on dosage of hullucinations, euphoria, altered state of mind including altered senses of time, sound, vision, touch etc. This is how the effects of drugs are described by medicine and science. It seems as if you are ignoring this part of their statement "effects on my mental state." They aren't saying the content of the hallucination is predictable or anything like that.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    "Varying degrees of altered state" doesn't equate to "predictable" in my mind, and I struggle to understand why it would to you. The effects of LSD are the contents of the hallucination - the actual state that is altered. "It alters your mental state" is not so much a prediction as it is an admission of lack of understanding. Everything alters your mental state. That's how your brain functions. If your mental state remained unchanged, you would be brain dead. The question is how it alters your mental state, and all the effects you clump under "hallucinations" are precisely the unpredictable contents. It's medsci for "we don't know".
    - operatingthetan 4y ago
      You misquoted me and then hyperfocused on the misquote. The changes from the drug are predictable because they wouldn't just randomly happen to you without the drug. >Everything alters your mental state. You are overgeneralizing to the point of absurdity and it does not appear that you are interested in a good-faith discussion. The contents of a hallucination and the experience of having a hallucination are distinct. Suggesting that the effect of LSD altering my mental state and me walking out my back door altering my mental state are the same because they both alter the state is absurd. You're obtusely ignoring intensity, impact, duration and that the hallucination and euphoria are different effects.
      - 4y ago