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Is American healthcare a patriotic issue or something, that's why criticizing it warrants a "don't come here"? Where the hell does your comment come from?

alphanullmeric 4y ago
Nothing to do with patriotism, I just question why supporters of collectivism constantly flee to capitalist countries.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  Sounds like misplaced patriotism to me. Not everyone came to this nation due to capitalism. My parents partially came here to be free to say whatever they wanted and not disappear, for instance. It doesn’t mean healthcare is done right; just as using TP to wipe one’s ass is 100 years backward. I sometimes wish they stayed back, because my own life and theirs would’ve probably been much better in the long run.
  - alphanullmeric 4y ago
    You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves.
    - nobodyandproud 4y ago
      > You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. No, I won’t be forced. I’ll just get shouted down by anonymous accounts just like the cancel culture of the left. You think complacency is patriotism. I actually would prefer to improve my country. > So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves. “My attempts”? Your response is indeed hostile, but you have it backwards. My family and I have been directly paying for and subsidizing for your own care and other Federal entitlements for decades. Your response is also irrational to the core. We collectively pay for law enforcement, the military, highways, etc. Why is it suddenly taboo to consider whether we’d actually save money if we had a baseline? Why is the worst of socialized medicine and the worst of market-based medicine an acceptable status quo?
      - alphanullmeric 4y ago
        Law enforcement and military exist to prevent you from using force on others, and others from using force against you. You're absolutely correct, I'm in favour of forcing you to not use force on others. The only positive right I believe in is the enforcement of negative rights. Alternatively, I simply state that we both agree on law enforcement and military but not healthcare, so at a baseline you want to force others to pay for more things than I do. I don't support the US healthcare system, but I won't support socialized healthcare because of that. The government can follow the rules it enforces onto private companies by operating its own healthcare service without forcing those that did not choose to use it to pay. Problem?
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > Law enforcement and military exist to prevent you from using force on others, and others from using force against you. You're absolutely correct, I'm in favour of forcing you to not use force on others. The only positive right I believe in is the enforcement of negative rights I specifically also mentioned highways. How does that fit into this narrative? > Alternatively, I simply state that we both agree on law enforcement and military but not healthcare, so at a baseline you want to force others to pay for more things than I do. I’m already paying for your care, so I’m paying for more than my fair share.
        alphanullmeric 4y ago
        Highways are no different from healthcare. I don't care if the government does them. You use it you pay for it. You have no idea how much I make, which your claim entirely depends on. You also don't seem to be reading very carefully, I'm stating what I believe should happen. I would like people to be forced to pay for less things. You would like people to be forced to pay for more things. Simple as that.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > Highways are no different from healthcare. I don't care if the government does them. You use it you pay for it. So you’d pay for law enforcement and a military, but without roads and highways they would be ineffective. What is your proposal? Do police and soldiers have to pay money for its use? > You have no idea how much I make, which your claim entirely depends on And you have no idea whether I’m overpaying for healthcare to subsidize your care. Those services you’re enjoying now and the professionals you’re relying on? Those are costs far beyond just the single treatment and whatever private insurance you’re paying for.
CogitoCogito 4y ago
Americans who are unable to listen to critiques of their system are frankly an embarrassment for the country. Their insecurity is kind of pathetic. They hold us back in development as a nation.

alphanullmeric 4y ago

Nothing to do with patriotism, I just question why supporters of collectivism constantly flee to capitalist countries.

nobodyandproud 4y ago
Sounds like misplaced patriotism to me. Not everyone came to this nation due to capitalism. My parents partially came here to be free to say whatever they wanted and not disappear, for instance. It doesn’t mean healthcare is done right; just as using TP to wipe one’s ass is 100 years backward. I sometimes wish they stayed back, because my own life and theirs would’ve probably been much better in the long run.
- alphanullmeric 4y ago
  You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves.
  - nobodyandproud 4y ago
    > You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. No, I won’t be forced. I’ll just get shouted down by anonymous accounts just like the cancel culture of the left. You think complacency is patriotism. I actually would prefer to improve my country. > So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves. “My attempts”? Your response is indeed hostile, but you have it backwards. My family and I have been directly paying for and subsidizing for your own care and other Federal entitlements for decades. Your response is also irrational to the core. We collectively pay for law enforcement, the military, highways, etc. Why is it suddenly taboo to consider whether we’d actually save money if we had a baseline? Why is the worst of socialized medicine and the worst of market-based medicine an acceptable status quo?
    - alphanullmeric 4y ago
      Law enforcement and military exist to prevent you from using force on others, and others from using force against you. You're absolutely correct, I'm in favour of forcing you to not use force on others. The only positive right I believe in is the enforcement of negative rights. Alternatively, I simply state that we both agree on law enforcement and military but not healthcare, so at a baseline you want to force others to pay for more things than I do. I don't support the US healthcare system, but I won't support socialized healthcare because of that. The government can follow the rules it enforces onto private companies by operating its own healthcare service without forcing those that did not choose to use it to pay. Problem?
      - nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > Law enforcement and military exist to prevent you from using force on others, and others from using force against you. You're absolutely correct, I'm in favour of forcing you to not use force on others. The only positive right I believe in is the enforcement of negative rights I specifically also mentioned highways. How does that fit into this narrative? > Alternatively, I simply state that we both agree on law enforcement and military but not healthcare, so at a baseline you want to force others to pay for more things than I do. I’m already paying for your care, so I’m paying for more than my fair share.
        alphanullmeric 4y ago
        Highways are no different from healthcare. I don't care if the government does them. You use it you pay for it. You have no idea how much I make, which your claim entirely depends on. You also don't seem to be reading very carefully, I'm stating what I believe should happen. I would like people to be forced to pay for less things. You would like people to be forced to pay for more things. Simple as that.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > Highways are no different from healthcare. I don't care if the government does them. You use it you pay for it. So you’d pay for law enforcement and a military, but without roads and highways they would be ineffective. What is your proposal? Do police and soldiers have to pay money for its use? > You have no idea how much I make, which your claim entirely depends on And you have no idea whether I’m overpaying for healthcare to subsidize your care. Those services you’re enjoying now and the professionals you’re relying on? Those are costs far beyond just the single treatment and whatever private insurance you’re paying for.

CogitoCogito 4y ago

Americans who are unable to listen to critiques of their system are frankly an embarrassment for the country. Their insecurity is kind of pathetic. They hold us back in development as a nation.