4 ms·

It's not going away, because school choice continues to be a valuable signal of how capable someone is, and graduates of "top" schools continue to have dispropo

It's not going away, because school choice continues to be a valuable signal of how capable someone is, and graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society.

dmreedy 4y ago
I would posit you might be conflating "capability" and "impact" in a manner that elides the many distinctions.
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  You're right, I definitely could have worded this one better in hindsight. I guess the downvotes are my lesson.
giantg2 4y ago
"and graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society." Source? There are many individuals who went to state schools or didn't go to college at all that have turned into billionaires, Nobel prize winners, etc. Not to mention there's no evidence that the people who went to an elite school would have less of an impact if elite schools didn't exist.
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  It's common sense, it's just a numbers game. Harvard has like 8000 undergrads or whatever, while your typical state school has ~60000. All I'm saying is that if you take a random student from both these populations, the Harvard student is statistically more likely to be some uber-successful wunderkind. In no way am I trying to say that people from non-elite schools are inherently less capable.
- boeingUH60 4y ago
  A higher number of those billionaires, Nobel prize winners, and political leaders in the US went to elite schools like Harvard and Yale. They undoubtedly have higher impacts on society, not because they are the smartest, but because having an elite school degree unlocks opportunities that are not available to average person…for all our talks about meritocracy, humans still pay more attention to signaling, branding, and marketing…and the elite schools know how to milk that for money and power.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "A higher number of those billionaires, Nobel prize winners, and political leaders in the US went to elite schools like Harvard and Yale." Again, any numbers on that? "not because they are the smartest, but because having an elite school degree unlocks opportunities" Or did they go to an elite school because they already came from money, which is the true source of those opportunities.
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      > any numbers on that? Current US Supreme Court: Alito - Yale Coney Barrett - Notre Dame Brown Jackson - Harvard Gorsuch - Harvard Kavanaugh - Yale Kagan - Harvard Roberts - Harvard Sotomayor - Yale Thomas - Yale Noticing anything?
      - giantg2 4y ago
        That's 9 people in one profession. A profession that specifically has restrictions on who can be a lawyer and judge. I can name people who didn't graduate from college, or graduated from non-ivy schools too. Considering technology is extremely influential in shaping out lives, you'll probably find it interesting how many of these people never even graduated from college. https://www.developgoodhabits.com/successful-people-college/ https://www.developgoodhabits.com/successful-people-college/ I'm looking for actual stats.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society. you offer no data to differentiate between this being caused by their abilities, or their greater access to the networks that place people in high impact positions.
paxys 4y ago
At some point it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The smartest people in the world want the Harvard brand. They graduate and do great things. Their success gets attributed back to Harvard. So how does one measure what specifically the university is bringing to the table?
- gregw2 4y ago
  You look at who got accepted to Harvard but didn’t go.

It's not going away, because school choice continues to be a valuable signal of how capable someone is, and graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society.

dmreedy 4y ago

I would posit you might be conflating "capability" and "impact" in a manner that elides the many distinctions.

uejfiweun 4y ago
You're right, I definitely could have worded this one better in hindsight. I guess the downvotes are my lesson.

giantg2 4y ago

"and graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society." Source? There are many individuals who went to state schools or didn't go to college at all that have turned into billionaires, Nobel prize winners, etc. Not to mention there's no evidence that the people who went to an elite school would have less of an impact if elite schools didn't exist.

uejfiweun 4y ago
It's common sense, it's just a numbers game. Harvard has like 8000 undergrads or whatever, while your typical state school has ~60000. All I'm saying is that if you take a random student from both these populations, the Harvard student is statistically more likely to be some uber-successful wunderkind. In no way am I trying to say that people from non-elite schools are inherently less capable.
boeingUH60 4y ago
A higher number of those billionaires, Nobel prize winners, and political leaders in the US went to elite schools like Harvard and Yale. They undoubtedly have higher impacts on society, not because they are the smartest, but because having an elite school degree unlocks opportunities that are not available to average person…for all our talks about meritocracy, humans still pay more attention to signaling, branding, and marketing…and the elite schools know how to milk that for money and power.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "A higher number of those billionaires, Nobel prize winners, and political leaders in the US went to elite schools like Harvard and Yale." Again, any numbers on that? "not because they are the smartest, but because having an elite school degree unlocks opportunities" Or did they go to an elite school because they already came from money, which is the true source of those opportunities.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    > any numbers on that? Current US Supreme Court: Alito - Yale Coney Barrett - Notre Dame Brown Jackson - Harvard Gorsuch - Harvard Kavanaugh - Yale Kagan - Harvard Roberts - Harvard Sotomayor - Yale Thomas - Yale Noticing anything?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      That's 9 people in one profession. A profession that specifically has restrictions on who can be a lawyer and judge. I can name people who didn't graduate from college, or graduated from non-ivy schools too. Considering technology is extremely influential in shaping out lives, you'll probably find it interesting how many of these people never even graduated from college. https://www.developgoodhabits.com/successful-people-college/ https://www.developgoodhabits.com/successful-people-college/ I'm looking for actual stats.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> graduates of "top" schools continue to have disproportionately higher impacts on society. you offer no data to differentiate between this being caused by their abilities, or their greater access to the networks that place people in high impact positions.

paxys 4y ago

At some point it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The smartest people in the world want the Harvard brand. They graduate and do great things. Their success gets attributed back to Harvard. So how does one measure what specifically the university is bringing to the table?

gregw2 4y ago
You look at who got accepted to Harvard but didn’t go.