4 ms·

> It's pretty disgusting what you can get away with as long as you follow the right politics. Do you mean the joke? I read it as criticism of the policy to do

> It's pretty disgusting what you can get away with as long as you follow the right politics. Do you mean the joke? I read it as criticism of the policy to do racial discrimination.

duxup 4y ago
I also thought it was intended as a sort of parody / criticism.
btilly 4y ago
If it was intended as criticism, then one would expect the joke's author, who was the regulator in charge of ensuring no racial discrimination, would have offered the much more direct criticism of taking regulatory action. The joke's author did no such thing. And was careful to make sure it never got to anyone who might be inclined to criticize Harvard's admissions practice. Furthermore the fact that Harvard admissions HAD slang like "Just another AA CJer" is pretty strong evidence of discrimination.
- emmp 4y ago
  The author of the joke memo is himself Asian American, which is a relevant detail.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. Could also be read as the very real racism / discrimination of East Asians towards Southeast Asians. Especially a white collar educated East Asian vs a more recently immigrated working class Southeast Asian family. Analogy would be a white guy named Bob Smith working a fancy office job, living in Manhattan making jokes about slack jawwed Cletus the farmer from Alabama.
vsskanth 4y ago
I think the parent comment meant that there doesn't seem to be any cost to making jokes at the expense of Asians. A similar parody letter based on stereotypes about black people will pretty much end their career, no matter the intent.
- mb7733 4y ago
  The joke is not at the expense of Asians, it is satirizing how Asians can be discriminated against in admissions
  - bsaul 4y ago
    Still would have been a risky move. There are examples in the past of jokes not well understood ...
    - dmix 4y ago
      The email itself said "you're the only person who would understand this sort of humor" so it's important to look at this in context. The recipient of the email was asian himself. Whether it can end careers? Sure people freely ignore context and socially burn people at the stake for much less. But IRL it's important to ask whether they were actually being racist with their satire. Which I personally think is a pretty thin argument.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        The author was Japanese and the subject was Filipino. There's a lot of (racial? cultural?) animus there - it's a little like a yankee making fun of a white southerner. Among Asian people, Filipino and Japanese are often considered different races.
      - areyousure 4y ago
        > The recipient of the email was asian himself. The recipient was https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/5/22/fitzsimmons-profile-1967/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/5/22/fitzsimmons-pro...
pclmulqdq 4y ago
You're forgetting who the audience is. The audience is Harvard admissions staff. That changes the nature of the joke quite a bit in my opinion. Since it is an inside joke for only Harvard's people and their ideologically-aligned "regulators," it reads to me as more of an acknowledgement and acceptance of the practice of anit-asian discrimination, and at most a suggestion that they tone it down a bit. If this were a parody written for the daily show (for example) or something else intended for a wide audience, it would absolutely have been criticism of Harvard, but the audience really does change the joke. Personally, I think this is one of the more racist things that I have seen recently, and large swathes of both Harvard's admissions staff and the folks "investigating" them need to resign.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Hmm ... you might be correct. It is down to intent really.

> It's pretty disgusting what you can get away with as long as you follow the right politics. Do you mean the joke? I read it as criticism of the policy to do racial discrimination.

duxup 4y ago

I also thought it was intended as a sort of parody / criticism.

btilly 4y ago

If it was intended as criticism, then one would expect the joke's author, who was the regulator in charge of ensuring no racial discrimination, would have offered the much more direct criticism of taking regulatory action. The joke's author did no such thing. And was careful to make sure it never got to anyone who might be inclined to criticize Harvard's admissions practice. Furthermore the fact that Harvard admissions HAD slang like "Just another AA CJer" is pretty strong evidence of discrimination.

emmp 4y ago
The author of the joke memo is himself Asian American, which is a relevant detail.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Maybe, maybe not. Could also be read as the very real racism / discrimination of East Asians towards Southeast Asians. Especially a white collar educated East Asian vs a more recently immigrated working class Southeast Asian family. Analogy would be a white guy named Bob Smith working a fancy office job, living in Manhattan making jokes about slack jawwed Cletus the farmer from Alabama.

vsskanth 4y ago

I think the parent comment meant that there doesn't seem to be any cost to making jokes at the expense of Asians. A similar parody letter based on stereotypes about black people will pretty much end their career, no matter the intent.

mb7733 4y ago
The joke is not at the expense of Asians, it is satirizing how Asians can be discriminated against in admissions
- bsaul 4y ago
  Still would have been a risky move. There are examples in the past of jokes not well understood ...
  - dmix 4y ago
    The email itself said "you're the only person who would understand this sort of humor" so it's important to look at this in context. The recipient of the email was asian himself. Whether it can end careers? Sure people freely ignore context and socially burn people at the stake for much less. But IRL it's important to ask whether they were actually being racist with their satire. Which I personally think is a pretty thin argument.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      The author was Japanese and the subject was Filipino. There's a lot of (racial? cultural?) animus there - it's a little like a yankee making fun of a white southerner. Among Asian people, Filipino and Japanese are often considered different races.
    - areyousure 4y ago
      > The recipient of the email was asian himself. The recipient was https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/5/22/fitzsimmons-profile-1967/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/5/22/fitzsimmons-pro...

pclmulqdq 4y ago

You're forgetting who the audience is. The audience is Harvard admissions staff. That changes the nature of the joke quite a bit in my opinion. Since it is an inside joke for only Harvard's people and their ideologically-aligned "regulators," it reads to me as more of an acknowledgement and acceptance of the practice of anit-asian discrimination, and at most a suggestion that they tone it down a bit. If this were a parody written for the daily show (for example) or something else intended for a wide audience, it would absolutely have been criticism of Harvard, but the audience really does change the joke. Personally, I think this is one of the more racist things that I have seen recently, and large swathes of both Harvard's admissions staff and the folks "investigating" them need to resign.

rightbyte 4y ago
Hmm ... you might be correct. It is down to intent really.