4 ms·

The shutdown aside, the “activist” is a separatist and terrorist. Quite the use of words there by wired and even Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amr

The shutdown aside, the “activist” is a separatist and terrorist. Quite the use of words there by wired and even Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritpal_Singh_(activist) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amritpal_Singh_(activist)

comprev 4y ago
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" Whether the person is an activist depends on an individual's viewpoint.
- _kwef 4y ago
  It depends on the reader how far they wish to take this quote literally, but I'm pretty sure somebody who used rehabiliation centres to recruit suicide bombers [0, 1] would be termed a terrorist by most people today. [0] - https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/khalistani-leader-amritpal-singh-waris-punjab-de-rehab-centres-human-bombs-gun-culture-punjab-2348956-2023-03-20 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/khalistani-leader-amri... [1] - https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/amritpal-singh-was-raising-own-army-human-bomb-squad-10-points-101679271407267.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/amritpal-singh-was...
  - croes 4y ago
    "a dossier by intelligence agencies said." I don't know how trustworthy a dossier of an government agency is.
    - rushikesh98 4y ago
      [dead]
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Yes, but if those viewpoints come from “reputed” media organizations, there’s a problem. Like if bbc called bin Laden an “activist”, I’m sure we’d have a very different reaction. It’s just unfortunate, that western media organizations paint people as “activists” or “freedom fighters” if it affects countries they don’t like, but the same acts would receive very different labels if this individual was doing something that affects the Us or Europe.
  - honkler 4y ago
    Indian media is hardly reputed. India stands at 150/180 on Press freedom index, behind even many dictatorship. Make that very clear. Indian media is not to be trusted.
    - darth_avocado 4y ago
      I’m sure the media in India is less trustworthy than those under the influence of dictatorships. Besides the fact that Indian media is not trustworthy has nothing to do with the fact that western media is also not trustworthy.
ummonk 4y ago
Separatist yes. I wouldn't go as far as calling him a terrorist until allegations of planned terrorist attacks are confirmed by neutral parties. While he's running an org that has voolent clashed with police, there hasn't been any proper terrorist attacks by Khalistanis this time around a la the bombing of Air India Flight 182 (and attempted bombing of Flight 301) back in the day. More accurate to just call him a violent separatist.
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Definition of a domestic terrorist per the FBI: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature. I feel a lot of arguments on “that’s not terrorism” come in when it doesn’t affect the western countries. Just because an organization hasn’t committed any recent acts doesn’t mean they’re not terror organizations.
  - honkler 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      Didn’t BBC suspend it’s reporter for going against the UK govt? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6776069 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6776069 Hardly a neutral source.
      - srean 4y ago
        And why would UK govt be the purported neutral source ? They have a political interest in India and consequently interest in not ruffling the political class in power in India. Neutrality, bias etc matter less than truth.
    - darth_avocado 4y ago
      So you just accused another person of being a Hindutva Fascist just because I presented facts? Hardly meets the standard of discussion on HN.
ekam 4y ago
The Wikipedia article is biased and naively relies on Indian state media. Singh is not a terrorist which is an easy call since he’s never committed any acts of terrorism. He’s a preacher and most of his sermons are the sort of benign stuff you’d expect (stop doing drugs, be a good member of the community, etc). Definitely a separatist but given the inhumane torture and imprisonment India has inflicted on everyday Sikh activists (see Jaggi Johal) not to mention the genocide in the 80s, separatism is probably the reasonable way out here
- truthsayer123 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ekam 4y ago
    40 years is nothing. So if you father was assaulted, your mother was harassed, your son was killed, or your daughter was raped, you’d forgive and forget in your lifetime? Every Sikh knows someone that suffered unimaginably and the Indian state police was either the direct perpetrator or knowingly refused to stop it. Those kinds of scars won’t heal quick and anyone that expects them to is hopelessly naive
linuxftw 4y ago
Separatist movements start when people are oppressed and their grievances aren't addressed. Everyone acts like lines drawn on maps 60+ years ago are some holy sacrament. Let the region hold self determination votes.
- truthsayer123 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - linuxftw 4y ago
    > small number of religious lunatics That's a very bigoted thing to say. If Luxembourg can be it's own country, surely Punjab can be too. Why would you want to force people that have nothing in common with you to be in the same state? It defies all logic, unless the capital is exploiting those people in some way (likely).
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Separatists movements don’t always start with oppression and grievances, they also start as a way to gain power, wealth or other benefits, be it individuals, groups or political parties.
notdang 4y ago
Is being a separatist something bad? For example imagine you are part of the USSR, but not Russia, instead you are in Latvia. Not wanting to be part of USSR, makes you are a separatist. Is there something bad in it?
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  Not necessarily, but can be. What if instead of USSR, you substitute US or Sweden? What if you some (not all) of the Muslims in Sweden want a separate Muslim country from Sweden? Or some (not all) of the Mormons one day decide they want a separate mormon country away from United States?
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    You then vote or fight for your freedom. Nothing is bad about either.
    - darth_avocado 4y ago
      Fair. How do you propose a vote looks like? Who gets to vote and who doesn’t? Say a specific ethnicity is 2% of the population in Sweden and they want a separate country. How do you propose the vote goes through? Who gets a say in this?
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        That's too many questions in a completely made up scenario. If you see a problem with the person, name it. But being a separatist is at most stupidity depending on circumstances. Can't jail for that.
        darth_avocado 4y ago
        That’s not a made up scenario. Sikhs are less than 2% of the population of India. And the Khalistani movement does not even represent majority of the Sikhs in India. And the movement has a notorious past of conducting violent activities that can be described with the T word. So it’s not at most stupidity. The stakes are higher. And you can be jailed for being associated with that. I’d welcome any debate and am open to changing my mind, but you’ll have to answer questions that do matter before you dismiss them.
zereraz 4y ago
The guy was trying to get people away from drugs and to help them find a spiritual path using the native religion of the land Sikhi. He asked for debates on national media which irked many and this led to them deciding to vanish him by sending 80k troops.

comprev 4y ago

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" Whether the person is an activist depends on an individual's viewpoint.

_kwef 4y ago
It depends on the reader how far they wish to take this quote literally, but I'm pretty sure somebody who used rehabiliation centres to recruit suicide bombers [0, 1] would be termed a terrorist by most people today. [0] - https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/khalistani-leader-amritpal-singh-waris-punjab-de-rehab-centres-human-bombs-gun-culture-punjab-2348956-2023-03-20 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/khalistani-leader-amri... [1] - https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/amritpal-singh-was-raising-own-army-human-bomb-squad-10-points-101679271407267.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/amritpal-singh-was...
- croes 4y ago
  "a dossier by intelligence agencies said." I don't know how trustworthy a dossier of an government agency is.
  - rushikesh98 4y ago
    [dead]
darth_avocado 4y ago
Yes, but if those viewpoints come from “reputed” media organizations, there’s a problem. Like if bbc called bin Laden an “activist”, I’m sure we’d have a very different reaction. It’s just unfortunate, that western media organizations paint people as “activists” or “freedom fighters” if it affects countries they don’t like, but the same acts would receive very different labels if this individual was doing something that affects the Us or Europe.
- honkler 4y ago
  Indian media is hardly reputed. India stands at 150/180 on Press freedom index, behind even many dictatorship. Make that very clear. Indian media is not to be trusted.
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    I’m sure the media in India is less trustworthy than those under the influence of dictatorships. Besides the fact that Indian media is not trustworthy has nothing to do with the fact that western media is also not trustworthy.

ummonk 4y ago

Separatist yes. I wouldn't go as far as calling him a terrorist until allegations of planned terrorist attacks are confirmed by neutral parties. While he's running an org that has voolent clashed with police, there hasn't been any proper terrorist attacks by Khalistanis this time around a la the bombing of Air India Flight 182 (and attempted bombing of Flight 301) back in the day. More accurate to just call him a violent separatist.

darth_avocado 4y ago
Definition of a domestic terrorist per the FBI: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature. I feel a lot of arguments on “that’s not terrorism” come in when it doesn’t affect the western countries. Just because an organization hasn’t committed any recent acts doesn’t mean they’re not terror organizations.
- honkler 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    Didn’t BBC suspend it’s reporter for going against the UK govt? https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6776069 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6776069 Hardly a neutral source.
    - srean 4y ago
      And why would UK govt be the purported neutral source ? They have a political interest in India and consequently interest in not ruffling the political class in power in India. Neutrality, bias etc matter less than truth.
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    So you just accused another person of being a Hindutva Fascist just because I presented facts? Hardly meets the standard of discussion on HN.

ekam 4y ago

The Wikipedia article is biased and naively relies on Indian state media. Singh is not a terrorist which is an easy call since he’s never committed any acts of terrorism. He’s a preacher and most of his sermons are the sort of benign stuff you’d expect (stop doing drugs, be a good member of the community, etc). Definitely a separatist but given the inhumane torture and imprisonment India has inflicted on everyday Sikh activists (see Jaggi Johal) not to mention the genocide in the 80s, separatism is probably the reasonable way out here

truthsayer123 4y ago
[flagged]
- ekam 4y ago
  40 years is nothing. So if you father was assaulted, your mother was harassed, your son was killed, or your daughter was raped, you’d forgive and forget in your lifetime? Every Sikh knows someone that suffered unimaginably and the Indian state police was either the direct perpetrator or knowingly refused to stop it. Those kinds of scars won’t heal quick and anyone that expects them to is hopelessly naive

linuxftw 4y ago

Separatist movements start when people are oppressed and their grievances aren't addressed. Everyone acts like lines drawn on maps 60+ years ago are some holy sacrament. Let the region hold self determination votes.

truthsayer123 4y ago
[flagged]
- linuxftw 4y ago
  > small number of religious lunatics That's a very bigoted thing to say. If Luxembourg can be it's own country, surely Punjab can be too. Why would you want to force people that have nothing in common with you to be in the same state? It defies all logic, unless the capital is exploiting those people in some way (likely).
darth_avocado 4y ago
Separatists movements don’t always start with oppression and grievances, they also start as a way to gain power, wealth or other benefits, be it individuals, groups or political parties.

notdang 4y ago

Is being a separatist something bad? For example imagine you are part of the USSR, but not Russia, instead you are in Latvia. Not wanting to be part of USSR, makes you are a separatist. Is there something bad in it?

darth_avocado 4y ago
Not necessarily, but can be. What if instead of USSR, you substitute US or Sweden? What if you some (not all) of the Muslims in Sweden want a separate Muslim country from Sweden? Or some (not all) of the Mormons one day decide they want a separate mormon country away from United States?
- lostmsu 4y ago
  You then vote or fight for your freedom. Nothing is bad about either.
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    Fair. How do you propose a vote looks like? Who gets to vote and who doesn’t? Say a specific ethnicity is 2% of the population in Sweden and they want a separate country. How do you propose the vote goes through? Who gets a say in this?
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      That's too many questions in a completely made up scenario. If you see a problem with the person, name it. But being a separatist is at most stupidity depending on circumstances. Can't jail for that.
      - darth_avocado 4y ago
        That’s not a made up scenario. Sikhs are less than 2% of the population of India. And the Khalistani movement does not even represent majority of the Sikhs in India. And the movement has a notorious past of conducting violent activities that can be described with the T word. So it’s not at most stupidity. The stakes are higher. And you can be jailed for being associated with that. I’d welcome any debate and am open to changing my mind, but you’ll have to answer questions that do matter before you dismiss them.

zereraz 4y ago

The guy was trying to get people away from drugs and to help them find a spiritual path using the native religion of the land Sikhi. He asked for debates on national media which irked many and this led to them deciding to vanish him by sending 80k troops.