5 ms·

My response to this is "eh whatever". Insurance companies have the right to do things like this, and you as a consumer have the right to pick up the phone and g

My response to this is "eh whatever". Insurance companies have the right to do things like this, and you as a consumer have the right to pick up the phone and get a policy with the different company. If I had to guess, this "feature" will be killed soon after public backlash. Likely it was thought up in the depths of product management and will get yanked once the rubber hits the road and they realize people are not going to put up with it.

benrbray 4y ago
Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, and the supreme court has ruled that driving is a "virtual necessity" [1] to American life. I am normally very r/fuckcars but this sort of thing affects everyone and as surveillance becomes cheaper and cheaper we may not have a choice. (if cars are dangerous, which they of course are, the way to fix it is to build walkable cities, not to charge higher rates for the graveyard shift workers who have no say in the matter) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705
- throw0101b 4y ago
  There is self-insurance in some places: * https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/automobile-self-insurance/ https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/auto... * https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-insurance-car/ https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-in... The minimum legal requirements in the US are not that high either: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_United_States#Requirements_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_Unite...
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, Legally speaking, insurance, registration, and licensing is only required of drivers/transport engaging in commercial activity (taxi, cargo, etc). This is not commonly known but there are court precedents that establish driving in a non-commercial capacity on publicly owned roadways is a constitutionally protected right under common law that cannot be infringed by state and local laws.
  - Frondo 4y ago
    This is a fictitious legal theory advanced by sovereign citizen movements. You can find many hours of entertainment watching sovcit courtroom insanity videos on youtube, and many of them try this legal theory with entirely predictable results.
    - ashwagary 4y ago
      >This is a fictitious legal theory advanced by sovereign citizen movements. I've seen videos of non-sovereign citizens that follow this legal theory being vindicated and in some cases being awarded damages by courts for rights violations. I don't believe its validity has sufficiently been proven false to make such a claim.
      - eek2121 4y ago
        If you think it is true, try it. You will quickly discover the 'find out' part of 'fuck around and find out'. In all states, driving is a privilege and not a right. In all states as well as anywhere in the United States you are required by law to pay taxes. In nearly all states, you are required to carry insurance for any vehicle you drive, even if for non-commercial activity. Rather than argue otherwise, look up your state and look up driving laws. HINT: Laws are all spelled out in English for every state in the United States.
        ashwagary 4y ago
        >In nearly all states, you are required to carry insurance for any vehicle you drive, even if for non-commercial activity. >Rather than argue otherwise, look up your state and look up driving laws. This right to drive was discussed in more detail here [0] and a pretty exhaustive list of US court decisions is available here [1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34869398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34869398 [1] https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-necessary-to-drive-automobile-on-public-highwaysstreets/ https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-ne...
  - 4y ago
mint2 4y ago
Other telematics programs already consider this. Also with insurance it doesn’t really matter if people hate a rating factor, if a company starts using one that turns out to be predictive than all other companies will eventually forced to or suffer adverse selection. Realistically the only way to prevent companies from using unfair rating factors is to regulate it due to adverse selection. Also, with the next wave of telematics that uses the onboard car sensors rather than dongles or phones, the false positives will get worse. I rarely get a legit lane departure warning because I use my signal and don’t drift, but I get plenty of false ones in construction zones or the mountains. Like on 80 through Tahoe there is a lot of extra lines prominent enough to trigger my car’s lane thing even when it’s not snow lanes.

benrbray 4y ago

Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, and the supreme court has ruled that driving is a "virtual necessity" [1] to American life. I am normally very r/fuckcars but this sort of thing affects everyone and as surveillance becomes cheaper and cheaper we may not have a choice. (if cars are dangerous, which they of course are, the way to fix it is to build walkable cities, not to charge higher rates for the graveyard shift workers who have no say in the matter) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705

throw0101b 4y ago
There is self-insurance in some places: * https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/automobile-self-insurance/ https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/auto... * https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-insurance-car/ https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-in... The minimum legal requirements in the US are not that high either: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_United_States#Requirements_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_Unite...
ashwagary 4y ago
>Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, Legally speaking, insurance, registration, and licensing is only required of drivers/transport engaging in commercial activity (taxi, cargo, etc). This is not commonly known but there are court precedents that establish driving in a non-commercial capacity on publicly owned roadways is a constitutionally protected right under common law that cannot be infringed by state and local laws.
- Frondo 4y ago
  This is a fictitious legal theory advanced by sovereign citizen movements. You can find many hours of entertainment watching sovcit courtroom insanity videos on youtube, and many of them try this legal theory with entirely predictable results.
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    >This is a fictitious legal theory advanced by sovereign citizen movements. I've seen videos of non-sovereign citizens that follow this legal theory being vindicated and in some cases being awarded damages by courts for rights violations. I don't believe its validity has sufficiently been proven false to make such a claim.
    - eek2121 4y ago
      If you think it is true, try it. You will quickly discover the 'find out' part of 'fuck around and find out'. In all states, driving is a privilege and not a right. In all states as well as anywhere in the United States you are required by law to pay taxes. In nearly all states, you are required to carry insurance for any vehicle you drive, even if for non-commercial activity. Rather than argue otherwise, look up your state and look up driving laws. HINT: Laws are all spelled out in English for every state in the United States.
      - ashwagary 4y ago
        >In nearly all states, you are required to carry insurance for any vehicle you drive, even if for non-commercial activity. >Rather than argue otherwise, look up your state and look up driving laws. This right to drive was discussed in more detail here [0] and a pretty exhaustive list of US court decisions is available here [1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34869398 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34869398 [1] https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-necessary-to-drive-automobile-on-public-highwaysstreets/ https://wearechange.org/u-s-supreme-court-says-no-license-ne...
- 4y ago

mint2 4y ago

Other telematics programs already consider this. Also with insurance it doesn’t really matter if people hate a rating factor, if a company starts using one that turns out to be predictive than all other companies will eventually forced to or suffer adverse selection. Realistically the only way to prevent companies from using unfair rating factors is to regulate it due to adverse selection. Also, with the next wave of telematics that uses the onboard car sensors rather than dongles or phones, the false positives will get worse. I rarely get a legit lane departure warning because I use my signal and don’t drift, but I get plenty of false ones in construction zones or the mountains. Like on 80 through Tahoe there is a lot of extra lines prominent enough to trigger my car’s lane thing even when it’s not snow lanes.