9 ms·

Immune system cells in the gut linked to stress-induced depression

149 points by AiaAidan 4y ago

anderber 4y ago
This is pure anecdotal, but since getting C-Diff a few years ago, whenever I get sick my gut feels much better (same with my skin). When my gut starts hurting again, and my eczema flares back up, I know that I'm almost over it and should slow down the vitamin C. And of course, my anxiety/stress also flares up.
- wgj 4y ago
  I'm confused. You're better with the C Diff infection?
krjachkov 4y ago
I used to struggle with anxiety and depression (it's very likely was stress-induced depression), and nothing seemed to help. But then I read a similar research article about how gut health could affect mental health. So I started eating more fiber and multiple probiotics. And guess what? My mood improved! I felt less anxious and depressed and more energized. It's crazy to think that something as simple as gut health could make such a difference in a brain.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Restricted time window fasting had a tangible impact on me too (psoriasis vanished 50%) for a while, slept better and less joint pain too. It's not always a silver bullet (causes stress maintaining it in the long run too) but it was interesting to experience it.
  - anonuser123456 4y ago
    For myself, it's hard to overstate just how much better I feel using time restricted eating (even with just a 14/10 window). I've done it off and on over the years, but recently had to start again because I was getting mild GERD symptoms. It's basically fixed them completely. But beyond just the feeling, you can see it directly in my Apple Watch data. HRV goes up considerably. RHR goes down. Estimated VO2 Max does up. Time restriction seems to be a _VERY_ powerful mechanism for promoting health and wellness.
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      I also had mild GERD issues, nothing major, no waking up with burns. What did you change ? I plan to try a 5/2 diet. eTRF makes me feel tired often and any external stress is difficult to handle. I think 5 normal days and 2 days of full fast during the week might feel good. It may also change metabolism deeper.. I don't know.
      - anonuser123456 4y ago
        All I did was go back from standard American feeding window to a 14/10 window. I stop eating at 7PMish and eat again after 10AM. I've seen studies that show 14/10 is about as good as 16/8. How long did you try eTRF? It takes time to adapt. Ultimately your body needs to up regulate ketone production or you will feel tired because you really don't have enough energy. Lots of fast carbs will spike insulin and suppress ketone production if you are hyperinsulinemic.
        agumonkey 4y ago
        I forgot precisely.. probably mid-Jan. I'm patient and will keep a month or so to see if things get stable, it's mostly positive so far.
  - polishdude20 4y ago
    What's your window like?
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      So people talked a lot about eTRF (early Time restricted fast) so I went for 7am-4pm but it was a bit hard, now i'm between 8/16 and 10/14, trying to eat early if I can, but otherwise it's more like 10am - 6pm. Daily issues make it hard to be very regular, but some say variability might be good either.
      - fithisux 4y ago
        10am-6pm and Zinc helped a lot with my hemorhoids
      - polishdude20 4y ago
        Ah I was thinking it would be a smaller window like 10-2pm or something. This seems pretty doable though. I do notice I sleep better if I stop eating before 7pm
        agumonkey 4y ago
        Things are fuzzy, every span is OK as long as you have more than 12h without ingesting food. Some say the important is to eat early.. but well.
- ck425 4y ago
  What probiotics did you take? Like tablets or specific foods like yogurt etc?
  - StrangeATractor 4y ago
    If you go the yogurt route give Nancy's a try. They put probiotics in it after the pasteurization process.
    - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
      Pasteurization kills the probiotic cultures along with whatever contaminating cultures may have been present, so adding probiotics afterwards makes sense. I just look for "with active cultures" on the label.
    - TheHumanist 4y ago
      Kefir
- rubicon33 4y ago
  > multiple probiotics. I get overwhelmed when researching probiotics and end up with buyers dillema. Which ones did you find helpful?
  - wusher 4y ago
    I tried a lot of different ones (over a decade). pendulum and seed both worked the best for me and ended up with seed due to cost.
  - sourcecodeplz 4y ago
    Yogurt and pickles.
    - TheHumanist 4y ago
      Kefir!
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      Kimchi. My favorite is from Chi Kitchen in Pawtucket RI.
  - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
    Because having higher biodiversity in your gut microbiome is associated with various health benefits, including reduced tendency to acquired new allergies, it seems that the more probiotic strains present, the better. Therefore, a supplement offering "5 Billion Probiotics!" with only one or a few strains may be less beneficial than than one offering 40 different strains. Probiotics supplements that are always kept refrigerated at a suitable temperature range are said to have a tendency for greater potency, simply because more of the cells survive.
  - syntheweave 4y ago
    I would just cycle through whatever you'd like to eat and include at least one probiotic source. For me that's usually yogurts(they're a good snack after a walk and it's easy to sample different ones).
  - 4y ago
- Llamamoe 4y ago
  I'm going through the same thing. I spent the last year constantly ill, barely able to get out of bed. Day 5 of probiotics with each meal, and I'm rediscovering my creative enthusiasm.
fdeee 4y ago
... in mice.
- echelon 4y ago
  We have to start somewhere.
  - fdeee 4y ago
    Yes of course. But meanwhile, there are sibling comments spreading anecdata about how their digestion makes them more/less sad and out of the corners might come the quacks with their depression-curing essence of beneficial stomach bugs or something. I feel it important to point out that most to all such links as in the original article are in the very early stages of being investigated. And no personal or medical consequences should be drawn from that, and a lot of caution should be exercised.
    - echelon 4y ago
      Maybe understanding that the gut microflora and immune system state "may" impact mental states ("we haven't gathered sufficient data") is enough to cause people to think about their own diets and health outcomes. Maybe we don't need to act like medical professionals are the all-seeing, all-knowing seers in their golden cathedrals. I went to school with a bunch of premeds and biochemists. I know exactly what's up. The science is slow and people get wrapped up in their own egos. There's enough information right now for people to change their diets, health habits, etc. if they suspect it may make a difference. Maybe in the fullness of time we'll discover it had nothing at all to do with gut immune cells, but I'm not going to suggest that people sit around and wait for the Godot of biochem to tell them it's okay to start thinking about it. It wasn't that long ago that we weren't even suggesting making changes to accommodate depression. One of the smartest people that I know deals with suicidal depression. From an outsider's perspective it's completely illogical. I would love for them to continue trying everything in their power to escape it, because it's crippling and ruins their quality of life. I'd rather that than just saying med up and deal with it.

149 points by AiaAidan 4y ago

This is pure anecdotal, but since getting C-Diff a few years ago, whenever I get sick my gut feels much better (same with my skin). When my gut starts hurting again, and my eczema flares back up, I know that I'm almost over it and should slow down the vitamin C. And of course, my anxiety/stress also flares up.

wgj 4y ago
I'm confused. You're better with the C Diff infection?

krjachkov 4y ago

I used to struggle with anxiety and depression (it's very likely was stress-induced depression), and nothing seemed to help. But then I read a similar research article about how gut health could affect mental health. So I started eating more fiber and multiple probiotics. And guess what? My mood improved! I felt less anxious and depressed and more energized. It's crazy to think that something as simple as gut health could make such a difference in a brain.

agumonkey 4y ago
Restricted time window fasting had a tangible impact on me too (psoriasis vanished 50%) for a while, slept better and less joint pain too. It's not always a silver bullet (causes stress maintaining it in the long run too) but it was interesting to experience it.
- anonuser123456 4y ago
  For myself, it's hard to overstate just how much better I feel using time restricted eating (even with just a 14/10 window). I've done it off and on over the years, but recently had to start again because I was getting mild GERD symptoms. It's basically fixed them completely. But beyond just the feeling, you can see it directly in my Apple Watch data. HRV goes up considerably. RHR goes down. Estimated VO2 Max does up. Time restriction seems to be a _VERY_ powerful mechanism for promoting health and wellness.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    I also had mild GERD issues, nothing major, no waking up with burns. What did you change ? I plan to try a 5/2 diet. eTRF makes me feel tired often and any external stress is difficult to handle. I think 5 normal days and 2 days of full fast during the week might feel good. It may also change metabolism deeper.. I don't know.
    - anonuser123456 4y ago
      All I did was go back from standard American feeding window to a 14/10 window. I stop eating at 7PMish and eat again after 10AM. I've seen studies that show 14/10 is about as good as 16/8. How long did you try eTRF? It takes time to adapt. Ultimately your body needs to up regulate ketone production or you will feel tired because you really don't have enough energy. Lots of fast carbs will spike insulin and suppress ketone production if you are hyperinsulinemic.
      - agumonkey 4y ago
        I forgot precisely.. probably mid-Jan. I'm patient and will keep a month or so to see if things get stable, it's mostly positive so far.
- polishdude20 4y ago
  What's your window like?
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    So people talked a lot about eTRF (early Time restricted fast) so I went for 7am-4pm but it was a bit hard, now i'm between 8/16 and 10/14, trying to eat early if I can, but otherwise it's more like 10am - 6pm. Daily issues make it hard to be very regular, but some say variability might be good either.
    - fithisux 4y ago
      10am-6pm and Zinc helped a lot with my hemorhoids
    - polishdude20 4y ago
      Ah I was thinking it would be a smaller window like 10-2pm or something. This seems pretty doable though. I do notice I sleep better if I stop eating before 7pm
      - agumonkey 4y ago
        Things are fuzzy, every span is OK as long as you have more than 12h without ingesting food. Some say the important is to eat early.. but well.
ck425 4y ago
What probiotics did you take? Like tablets or specific foods like yogurt etc?
- StrangeATractor 4y ago
  If you go the yogurt route give Nancy's a try. They put probiotics in it after the pasteurization process.
  - IIsi50MHz 4y ago
    Pasteurization kills the probiotic cultures along with whatever contaminating cultures may have been present, so adding probiotics afterwards makes sense. I just look for "with active cultures" on the label.
  - TheHumanist 4y ago
    Kefir
rubicon33 4y ago
> multiple probiotics. I get overwhelmed when researching probiotics and end up with buyers dillema. Which ones did you find helpful?
- wusher 4y ago
  I tried a lot of different ones (over a decade). pendulum and seed both worked the best for me and ended up with seed due to cost.
- sourcecodeplz 4y ago
  Yogurt and pickles.
  - TheHumanist 4y ago
    Kefir!
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    Kimchi. My favorite is from Chi Kitchen in Pawtucket RI.
- IIsi50MHz 4y ago
  Because having higher biodiversity in your gut microbiome is associated with various health benefits, including reduced tendency to acquired new allergies, it seems that the more probiotic strains present, the better. Therefore, a supplement offering "5 Billion Probiotics!" with only one or a few strains may be less beneficial than than one offering 40 different strains. Probiotics supplements that are always kept refrigerated at a suitable temperature range are said to have a tendency for greater potency, simply because more of the cells survive.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  I would just cycle through whatever you'd like to eat and include at least one probiotic source. For me that's usually yogurts(they're a good snack after a walk and it's easy to sample different ones).
- 4y ago
Llamamoe 4y ago
I'm going through the same thing. I spent the last year constantly ill, barely able to get out of bed. Day 5 of probiotics with each meal, and I'm rediscovering my creative enthusiasm.

fdeee 4y ago

... in mice.

echelon 4y ago
We have to start somewhere.
- fdeee 4y ago
  Yes of course. But meanwhile, there are sibling comments spreading anecdata about how their digestion makes them more/less sad and out of the corners might come the quacks with their depression-curing essence of beneficial stomach bugs or something. I feel it important to point out that most to all such links as in the original article are in the very early stages of being investigated. And no personal or medical consequences should be drawn from that, and a lot of caution should be exercised.
  - echelon 4y ago
    Maybe understanding that the gut microflora and immune system state "may" impact mental states ("we haven't gathered sufficient data") is enough to cause people to think about their own diets and health outcomes. Maybe we don't need to act like medical professionals are the all-seeing, all-knowing seers in their golden cathedrals. I went to school with a bunch of premeds and biochemists. I know exactly what's up. The science is slow and people get wrapped up in their own egos. There's enough information right now for people to change their diets, health habits, etc. if they suspect it may make a difference. Maybe in the fullness of time we'll discover it had nothing at all to do with gut immune cells, but I'm not going to suggest that people sit around and wait for the Godot of biochem to tell them it's okay to start thinking about it. It wasn't that long ago that we weren't even suggesting making changes to accommodate depression. One of the smartest people that I know deals with suicidal depression. From an outsider's perspective it's completely illogical. I would love for them to continue trying everything in their power to escape it, because it's crippling and ruins their quality of life. I'd rather that than just saying med up and deal with it.