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Yes, IA has followed a similar tragic arc as Google Books, another martyr to the dream of a truly 21st century library. What's most tragic about it to me is th

Yes, IA has followed a similar tragic arc as Google Books, another martyr to the dream of a truly 21st century library. What's most tragic about it to me is that that vast majority of works affected are "zombie" copyright works that have no actual commercial value. Someone, somewhere holds the copyright, but no one has sold a copy in years or decades. For the sake of protecting the tiny sliver of commercially valuable works, access to all of this other knowledge will be lost.

crazygringo 4y ago
Seriously. Has there been any kind of movement towards a law that would automatically put zombie works into the public domain? It really doesn't seem unreasonable that if a book, film, recording, or video game hasn't been generally available for sale over the past 5 or 10 years it becomes public domain. Use it or lose it, in other words. Although it might really only apply to past works. Because while physical books go out of print, e-books will probably be available forever, no?
- anticensor 4y ago
  But then they would make such works paying public domain (the type of public domain that you have to pay royalties to the state) rather than FFA public domain.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  Not in the public domain, no, but some countries such as the Nordics have mandatory schemes for orphan works where a collection society is able to authorise their use and has legal protection to do so, and will pay out said royalties should someone come forward to claim ownership at a later date. Most of Europe was going to do this at some point but the photographer's unions pushed back in very strong terms so they were often watered down.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  Not in the public domain, no, but some countries such as the Nordics have mandatory schemes for orphan works where a collection society is able to authorise their use and has legal protection to do so, and will pay out said royalties should someone come forward to claim ownership at a later date. Most of Europe was going to do this at some point but the photographer's unions pushed back in very strong terms so they were often watered down.
- kevincox 4y ago
  Just shortening copyright would mostly mitigate this issue. If it was 10 years after creation then the most you have to wait is a decade. It may be nice to also have a specific exception for "abandoned" works but at least 10 years would be a solid fallback with no need to do difficult research like finding the authors and if they have died or proving that a work qualifies as abandoned.
hackernewds 4y ago
What happened to Google Books? I would argue the artist still deserves to retain value, regardless of the size of it unless they give it up. If it expires, sure it's public domain.
- allturtles 4y ago
  https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-tragedy-of-google-books/523320/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-t...
- thebooktocome 4y ago
  But does the artist deserve to retain the value of their work seventy years after their death? Given the very large proportion of orphaned works, a very large proportion of living authors don't think their existing corpus has any residual value to them.
- giantrobot 4y ago
  If artists deserve money every time you read a book then your plumber should get paid every time you take a shit. Copyrights have been abused to the point of absurdity. They should last no longer than patents. A writer/artist/whatever can make some money off a work for two decades and then their work goes to the society that enabled its creation.
  - MrVandemar 4y ago
    > A writer/artist/whatever can make some money off a work for two decades and then their work goes to the society that enabled its creation. -- Signed, Not an Artist. (Most artists are paid an absolute pittance for their work. Most work at least one other job. Almost none make even a basic income. I feel artists should have the benefit of the income from their work for their natural life, unless they waive their rights. That said, companies have sorely abused and influenced copyright law to the point that the advantage is highly asymmetric in their favour and that certainly needs to be addressed).
    - 4y ago
hgsgm 4y ago
Zombie works are free to share if there truly is no rightsholder pressing claims.
- kevincox 4y ago
  But there is always a risk that the rights holder rises up from the grave and sues you. With proper abandoned work exceptions you would be safe as long as the rights holders are not currently distributing.

crazygringo 4y ago

Seriously. Has there been any kind of movement towards a law that would automatically put zombie works into the public domain? It really doesn't seem unreasonable that if a book, film, recording, or video game hasn't been generally available for sale over the past 5 or 10 years it becomes public domain. Use it or lose it, in other words. Although it might really only apply to past works. Because while physical books go out of print, e-books will probably be available forever, no?

anticensor 4y ago
But then they would make such works paying public domain (the type of public domain that you have to pay royalties to the state) rather than FFA public domain.
Mindwipe 4y ago
Not in the public domain, no, but some countries such as the Nordics have mandatory schemes for orphan works where a collection society is able to authorise their use and has legal protection to do so, and will pay out said royalties should someone come forward to claim ownership at a later date. Most of Europe was going to do this at some point but the photographer's unions pushed back in very strong terms so they were often watered down.
Mindwipe 4y ago
Not in the public domain, no, but some countries such as the Nordics have mandatory schemes for orphan works where a collection society is able to authorise their use and has legal protection to do so, and will pay out said royalties should someone come forward to claim ownership at a later date. Most of Europe was going to do this at some point but the photographer's unions pushed back in very strong terms so they were often watered down.
kevincox 4y ago
Just shortening copyright would mostly mitigate this issue. If it was 10 years after creation then the most you have to wait is a decade. It may be nice to also have a specific exception for "abandoned" works but at least 10 years would be a solid fallback with no need to do difficult research like finding the authors and if they have died or proving that a work qualifies as abandoned.

hackernewds 4y ago

What happened to Google Books? I would argue the artist still deserves to retain value, regardless of the size of it unless they give it up. If it expires, sure it's public domain.

allturtles 4y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-tragedy-of-google-books/523320/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-t...
thebooktocome 4y ago
But does the artist deserve to retain the value of their work seventy years after their death? Given the very large proportion of orphaned works, a very large proportion of living authors don't think their existing corpus has any residual value to them.
giantrobot 4y ago
If artists deserve money every time you read a book then your plumber should get paid every time you take a shit. Copyrights have been abused to the point of absurdity. They should last no longer than patents. A writer/artist/whatever can make some money off a work for two decades and then their work goes to the society that enabled its creation.
- MrVandemar 4y ago
  > A writer/artist/whatever can make some money off a work for two decades and then their work goes to the society that enabled its creation. -- Signed, Not an Artist. (Most artists are paid an absolute pittance for their work. Most work at least one other job. Almost none make even a basic income. I feel artists should have the benefit of the income from their work for their natural life, unless they waive their rights. That said, companies have sorely abused and influenced copyright law to the point that the advantage is highly asymmetric in their favour and that certainly needs to be addressed).
  - 4y ago

hgsgm 4y ago

Zombie works are free to share if there truly is no rightsholder pressing claims.

kevincox 4y ago
But there is always a risk that the rights holder rises up from the grave and sues you. With proper abandoned work exceptions you would be safe as long as the rights holders are not currently distributing.