3 ms·

Lets start with your personal belongings. I promise we'll get to the rest of everyone else eventually.

bitwize 4y ago
Read up on the difference between private and personal property before making such a foolish response. Private property is capital. Capital is the power to rule.
- marris 4y ago
  The distinction is not as clear nor as useful as some make it sound. For example, is my pickup truck "personal" or "private"? Or is it personal as long as I drive myself and my stuff around, but as soon as I offer to sell moving services to others, it becomes private? Or is it still personal as long as I don't scale the business to more trucks? What if my brother and I want to pool two trucks? What if I contribute the truck and he contributes the driving skill, but we are both part owners in the business? What if he doesn't want to take the risk of capital ownership and instead wants a steady wage? At what point does the truck stop being personal property? My personal view of this is that Marxism doesn't really have much to say about organizations below a certain scale, and what it has to say about larger scale orgs is that they are icky/alienating. Everything else is more about trying to verbalize the ickyness than to explain anything substantial about the org mechanics.
- latency-guy2 4y ago
  Nah, you will give me your stuff.
  - sobkas 4y ago
    Most people would answer give you what? They rent or have a loan so they don't own most of their stuff. And stuff they own is worth less than what they owe(home? was bought during bubble, if correction comes they are so much in red...). What they can give you is part of their debt if you insist so much.
EngManagerIsMe 4y ago
This is always the response of someone who doesn't understand the difference between "private property" and "personal property". Next to zero percent of people who want to abolish private property want to abolish personal property. You can keep your playstation. That's personal property. The people who want to abolish private property are interested in removing the ability for you to exercise power over others because you are holding a public good in private. For instance, by purchasing land and renting it to others, or by using private water rights and making a profit from them. If we can talk about this stuff without resorting to strawmen, I think there's an interesting and useful exchange of perspectives that can happen.
- latency-guy2 4y ago
  > The people who want to abolish private property are interested in removing the ability for you to exercise power over others because you are holding a public good in private. For instance, by purchasing land and renting it to others, or by using private water rights and making a profit from them. I declare your house a public good, it is now mine. > This is always the response of someone who doesn't understand the difference between "private property" and "personal property". This is the response of someone who does not make a distinction between these because there is no distinction. Only to people who think there is a distinction believe that there is a meaningful difference. No one is obligated to believe in your belief, nor are they going to on purpose dumb themselves down to your level so that people can argue on your field. You are trying to force your definition of words so that you can appear as if you have something meaningful to say, but you don't. My property is my property. Not yours. > If we can talk about this stuff without resorting to strawmen, I think there's an interesting and useful exchange of perspectives that can happen. Of course you do, you're a commie. You absolutely believe in this despite how many holes your ideology has, because if you don't you won't be able to win. Every single bad aspect is nothing compared to the defects in your opponent's world view. You're not here for discussion.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    > I declare your house a public good, it is now mine. No, it's not. Collective ownership is not "hippity hoppity, your stuff is now my property". It's about the management of goods -- land, rivers, buildings, etc. -- for the good of all, not just the one person designated owner. You are still thinking in terms of ownership, which should absolutely not be a thing for public goods like land. Come back when you've actually read Marx and not some far-right exegesis of Marx.

Read up on the difference between private and personal property before making such a foolish response. Private property is capital. Capital is the power to rule.

marris 4y ago
The distinction is not as clear nor as useful as some make it sound. For example, is my pickup truck "personal" or "private"? Or is it personal as long as I drive myself and my stuff around, but as soon as I offer to sell moving services to others, it becomes private? Or is it still personal as long as I don't scale the business to more trucks? What if my brother and I want to pool two trucks? What if I contribute the truck and he contributes the driving skill, but we are both part owners in the business? What if he doesn't want to take the risk of capital ownership and instead wants a steady wage? At what point does the truck stop being personal property? My personal view of this is that Marxism doesn't really have much to say about organizations below a certain scale, and what it has to say about larger scale orgs is that they are icky/alienating. Everything else is more about trying to verbalize the ickyness than to explain anything substantial about the org mechanics.
latency-guy2 4y ago
Nah, you will give me your stuff.
- sobkas 4y ago
  Most people would answer give you what? They rent or have a loan so they don't own most of their stuff. And stuff they own is worth less than what they owe(home? was bought during bubble, if correction comes they are so much in red...). What they can give you is part of their debt if you insist so much.

EngManagerIsMe 4y ago

This is always the response of someone who doesn't understand the difference between "private property" and "personal property". Next to zero percent of people who want to abolish private property want to abolish personal property. You can keep your playstation. That's personal property. The people who want to abolish private property are interested in removing the ability for you to exercise power over others because you are holding a public good in private. For instance, by purchasing land and renting it to others, or by using private water rights and making a profit from them. If we can talk about this stuff without resorting to strawmen, I think there's an interesting and useful exchange of perspectives that can happen.

latency-guy2 4y ago
> The people who want to abolish private property are interested in removing the ability for you to exercise power over others because you are holding a public good in private. For instance, by purchasing land and renting it to others, or by using private water rights and making a profit from them. I declare your house a public good, it is now mine. > This is always the response of someone who doesn't understand the difference between "private property" and "personal property". This is the response of someone who does not make a distinction between these because there is no distinction. Only to people who think there is a distinction believe that there is a meaningful difference. No one is obligated to believe in your belief, nor are they going to on purpose dumb themselves down to your level so that people can argue on your field. You are trying to force your definition of words so that you can appear as if you have something meaningful to say, but you don't. My property is my property. Not yours. > If we can talk about this stuff without resorting to strawmen, I think there's an interesting and useful exchange of perspectives that can happen. Of course you do, you're a commie. You absolutely believe in this despite how many holes your ideology has, because if you don't you won't be able to win. Every single bad aspect is nothing compared to the defects in your opponent's world view. You're not here for discussion.
- bitwize 4y ago
  > I declare your house a public good, it is now mine. No, it's not. Collective ownership is not "hippity hoppity, your stuff is now my property". It's about the management of goods -- land, rivers, buildings, etc. -- for the good of all, not just the one person designated owner. You are still thinking in terms of ownership, which should absolutely not be a thing for public goods like land. Come back when you've actually read Marx and not some far-right exegesis of Marx.