6 ms·

That seems horrendous. Don't many community/government libraries do this? Seems like a huge blow to freedom of information and sharing.

by warent 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dmix 4y ago
Is this just ebook lending? Is that popular among local libraries? I thought Kindle/Nook/Apple books/etc completely dominated that market. Reading PDFs on computers/tablets for long form stuff never made much sense to me. I'm curious if local libraries get much traction from their digital libraries. I could see audiobooks getting locked down being a big hit though. Audible has a monopoly on that harder than ebooks ever experienced.
- jhbadger 4y ago
  It's very popular among local libraries (at least in the US and UK) -- Libby/Overdrive being the main player, followed by Hoopla.
  - Mindwipe 4y ago
    It is worth noting that Libraries in the UK have to pay authors/publishers to loan out books on a royalty basis with the Public Lending Right payment of course. Even physical books.
- cratermoon 4y ago
  My library lends epubs through OverDrive, which puts Adobe's DRM on them. It works quite well with my Kobo Libra H2O. Checkouts of ebooks spiked during the pandemic, with 3 million in 2019, for a county with a total population of ~800K
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    >Checkouts of ebooks spiked during the pandemic, with 3 million in 2019, for a county with a total population of ~800K Did you mean 2020? Or did they spike before the pandemic really started?
    - cratermoon 4y ago
      Sorry, those were two different thoughts. I only have numbers for 2019. I haven't been able to find anything for pandemic years other than general reports that ebook borrowing spiked.
- dunham 4y ago
  My ten year old uses "Libby" a lot to borrow books from the local library - at one point they started rate limiting him. He also typically has a dozen physical books checked out at any given time.
  - dmix 4y ago
    Just curious: What kind of books do they read? On an ipad or something?
    - piceas 4y ago
      For my five year old, we have been rate limited on overdrive reading Pete the Cat and Franklin books. Partly because the selection is woeful (about 20 English books) compared to IA's thousands in that category.
      - efreak 4y ago
        If a book exists in overdrive, they allow you to request that your library add it to their collection. My first two requests were added to my library within days, several others came a few months later, and now about 4(?) years later I'm still getting an occasional notification about it, though at this point I've read them already...
    - dunham 4y ago
      Yeah, on an iPad. He reads a variety of stuff, but he tells me it's been pokemon themed manga recently. We limit screen time, so he mostly reads print books, but he'll get an hour of bonus libby time in the mornings on school holidays. His fun screen time, 30 min weekdays, 1.5 weekends is typically minecraft or pokemon games. I also occasionally let him have a little bit of Libby or scratch time (which I deem "educational") before going to school or before bed. (Everything is contingent on behavior.) Aside from minecraft/pokemon stuff, he typically reads a mix of kids graphic novels and books. Including Tristan Strong, Artimis Fowl, Wings of Fire, Dogman. He's also read Harry Potter, some Terry Pratchett, and Tolkien. He first read the Lord of the Rings in the summer between first and second grade, which blew my mind (it was middle or high school or me). So I don't really worry about stuff like the ratio of graphic novels to textual books.
bdowling 4y ago
> Don't many community/government libraries do this? Those books are licensed to the libraries by the publishers. The introduction of the opinion here explains how it works: > This dispute concerns the way libraries lend ebooks. Public and academic libraries in the United States spend billions of dollars each year obtaining print books and ebooks for their patrons to borrow for free. Pls.’ 56.1 ¶ 113. Libraries usually buy their print books from publishers or wholesalers. Id. ¶ 114. Copies of ebooks, however, are typically not bought but licensed to libraries from publishers through distributors called “aggregators.” Id. ¶ 117. The Publishers task aggregators with ensuring that a library lends its ebooks only to the library’s members. Id. ¶¶ 123, 125. The Publishers also require aggregators to employ approved “digital rights management” (“DRM”) software and other security measures to prevent unauthorized copying or distribution of ebook files. Id. ¶ 126. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.188.0.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1rM4_dbpOOKJUi5fRa112PSyoEYcd1z_ePwpL4WUEgA1FVIiWuiLCRs8w https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.53..., page 3 (emphasis added).
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  So then IA just needs to have a free membership and implement the most basic DRM.
  - teraflop 4y ago
    Libraries' ebook lending programs are not legal because they require membership and use DRM. They're legal because they're authorized by the copyright owners, and those are the terms the copyright owners choose to impose (along with licensing fees).
    - drdaeman 4y ago
      But if I purchase the paper book, there is - thankfully - no shrink-wrap licensing anywhere that tells me that I can or cannot lend it to anyone, yet I sure hope I can. Why IA can't?
      - 4y ago

That seems horrendous. Don't many community/government libraries do this? Seems like a huge blow to freedom of information and sharing.

by warent 4y ago

That seems horrendous. Don't many community/government libraries do this? Seems like a huge blow to freedom of information and sharing.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dmix 4y ago

Is this just ebook lending? Is that popular among local libraries? I thought Kindle/Nook/Apple books/etc completely dominated that market. Reading PDFs on computers/tablets for long form stuff never made much sense to me. I'm curious if local libraries get much traction from their digital libraries. I could see audiobooks getting locked down being a big hit though. Audible has a monopoly on that harder than ebooks ever experienced.

jhbadger 4y ago
It's very popular among local libraries (at least in the US and UK) -- Libby/Overdrive being the main player, followed by Hoopla.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  It is worth noting that Libraries in the UK have to pay authors/publishers to loan out books on a royalty basis with the Public Lending Right payment of course. Even physical books.
cratermoon 4y ago
My library lends epubs through OverDrive, which puts Adobe's DRM on them. It works quite well with my Kobo Libra H2O. Checkouts of ebooks spiked during the pandemic, with 3 million in 2019, for a county with a total population of ~800K
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  >Checkouts of ebooks spiked during the pandemic, with 3 million in 2019, for a county with a total population of ~800K Did you mean 2020? Or did they spike before the pandemic really started?
  - cratermoon 4y ago
    Sorry, those were two different thoughts. I only have numbers for 2019. I haven't been able to find anything for pandemic years other than general reports that ebook borrowing spiked.
dunham 4y ago
My ten year old uses "Libby" a lot to borrow books from the local library - at one point they started rate limiting him. He also typically has a dozen physical books checked out at any given time.
- dmix 4y ago
  Just curious: What kind of books do they read? On an ipad or something?
  - piceas 4y ago
    For my five year old, we have been rate limited on overdrive reading Pete the Cat and Franklin books. Partly because the selection is woeful (about 20 English books) compared to IA's thousands in that category.
    - efreak 4y ago
      If a book exists in overdrive, they allow you to request that your library add it to their collection. My first two requests were added to my library within days, several others came a few months later, and now about 4(?) years later I'm still getting an occasional notification about it, though at this point I've read them already...
  - dunham 4y ago
    Yeah, on an iPad. He reads a variety of stuff, but he tells me it's been pokemon themed manga recently. We limit screen time, so he mostly reads print books, but he'll get an hour of bonus libby time in the mornings on school holidays. His fun screen time, 30 min weekdays, 1.5 weekends is typically minecraft or pokemon games. I also occasionally let him have a little bit of Libby or scratch time (which I deem "educational") before going to school or before bed. (Everything is contingent on behavior.) Aside from minecraft/pokemon stuff, he typically reads a mix of kids graphic novels and books. Including Tristan Strong, Artimis Fowl, Wings of Fire, Dogman. He's also read Harry Potter, some Terry Pratchett, and Tolkien. He first read the Lord of the Rings in the summer between first and second grade, which blew my mind (it was middle or high school or me). So I don't really worry about stuff like the ratio of graphic novels to textual books.

bdowling 4y ago

> Don't many community/government libraries do this? Those books are licensed to the libraries by the publishers. The introduction of the opinion here explains how it works: > This dispute concerns the way libraries lend ebooks. Public and academic libraries in the United States spend billions of dollars each year obtaining print books and ebooks for their patrons to borrow for free. Pls.’ 56.1 ¶ 113. Libraries usually buy their print books from publishers or wholesalers. Id. ¶ 114. Copies of ebooks, however, are typically not bought but licensed to libraries from publishers through distributors called “aggregators.” Id. ¶ 117. The Publishers task aggregators with ensuring that a library lends its ebooks only to the library’s members. Id. ¶¶ 123, 125. The Publishers also require aggregators to employ approved “digital rights management” (“DRM”) software and other security measures to prevent unauthorized copying or distribution of ebook files. Id. ¶ 126. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900/gov.uscourts.nysd.537900.188.0.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1rM4_dbpOOKJUi5fRa112PSyoEYcd1z_ePwpL4WUEgA1FVIiWuiLCRs8w https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.53..., page 3 (emphasis added).

encryptluks2 4y ago
So then IA just needs to have a free membership and implement the most basic DRM.
- teraflop 4y ago
  Libraries' ebook lending programs are not legal because they require membership and use DRM. They're legal because they're authorized by the copyright owners, and those are the terms the copyright owners choose to impose (along with licensing fees).
  - drdaeman 4y ago
    But if I purchase the paper book, there is - thankfully - no shrink-wrap licensing anywhere that tells me that I can or cannot lend it to anyone, yet I sure hope I can. Why IA can't?
    - 4y ago