4 ms·

I've never seen any remotely left wing content on NPR. When did they call for shared ownership of the means of production or nationalization of industry? That

I've never seen any remotely left wing content on NPR. When did they call for shared ownership of the means of production or nationalization of industry? That's what being left wing means. Identity politics are liberal, which is a right wing movement.

daedalus_j 4y ago
I think it's fair to say that they bias leftwards at least. They may not be, you know, outright communists or anything, but that doesn't mean they don't lean towards the left side of the American political spectrum a fair bit past center. In the standard distribution of political views calling them "left wing" is fair, even if they're not out on the long tail.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Which positions do they support that you would call left wing?
  - daedalus_j 4y ago
    Big ones I can think of off the top of my head: Immigration, tax, gun control, abortion, all modern "social justice" issues. But my point isn't that they're "far left", just that they are reliably left of american center. They make no (or at least almost no) effort to present the center-right versions of the argument.
    - kthejoker2 4y ago
      Tax? You serious, Clark?
    - malermeister 4y ago
      > immigration It is easy to understand how the degrading position of the English workers, engendered by our modern history, and its immediate consequences, has been still more degraded by the presence of Irish competition ~ Friedrich Engels > gun control Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary ~ Karl Marx > all modern "social justice" issues None of those are left wing. They're all liberal, which is a counter model to leftism. > They make no (or at least almost no) effort to present the center-right versions of the argument. They almost exclusively present the liberal argument, which is the center right.
      - DangitBobby 4y ago
        Do we have to get into a semantic debate about what left and right really mean every time? You know exactly what they mean.
        malermeister 4y ago
        I'm sorry I don't like my beliefs being misrepresented and twisted into something I'm actively against?
        DangitBobby 4y ago
        The label you use to describe your beliefs is the same label that everyone else uses to describe a different set of beliefs, which you at least partially disagree with. We all know it and don't need to go over it every time.
tristor 4y ago
> That's what being left wing means. Identity politics are liberal, which is a right wing movement. I get your point, especially as someone on the left myself. That said, it’s more useful in conversations about American politics to understand the political dichotomy is centered on the American political Overton window, not on the center of all extant political philosophies. There has effectively been no real left wing party with national political presence in the US in the lifetimes of the majority of Americans alive today. Both major parties and nearly all smaller parties in US politics are right of extant center, but many are left of American center. “Liberals” aren’t even liberals in the US, anyway. “Liberals” in the US are populist globalists. Identity politics is arguably not affiliated with any particular political philosophy or party, but rather is a cynical methodology employed by many parties to create a social device to shift the political median in their direction. For whatever philosophical rigor you’d assign to identity politics, it’s at best an ideology, but lacks the necessary substance to be a complete philosophy. The left of the American center is mainly held by populist globalists, with orbiting positions which at its most collectivist aligns to environmentalism. The right of the American center is mainly held by populist nationalists, with orbiting positions which at it’s most collectivist aligns to religious fascism. American society is very deeply individualistic, and this is a major factor why populism holds so much sway and why collectivist philosophies exist in the fringes at best. Hopefully I’ve managed to short-circuit repeating the same comment subthread about semantics of the term “left wing” that happens in every HN thread about American politics.

daedalus_j 4y ago

I think it's fair to say that they bias leftwards at least. They may not be, you know, outright communists or anything, but that doesn't mean they don't lean towards the left side of the American political spectrum a fair bit past center. In the standard distribution of political views calling them "left wing" is fair, even if they're not out on the long tail.

malermeister 4y ago
Which positions do they support that you would call left wing?
- daedalus_j 4y ago
  Big ones I can think of off the top of my head: Immigration, tax, gun control, abortion, all modern "social justice" issues. But my point isn't that they're "far left", just that they are reliably left of american center. They make no (or at least almost no) effort to present the center-right versions of the argument.
  - kthejoker2 4y ago
    Tax? You serious, Clark?
  - malermeister 4y ago
    > immigration It is easy to understand how the degrading position of the English workers, engendered by our modern history, and its immediate consequences, has been still more degraded by the presence of Irish competition ~ Friedrich Engels > gun control Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary ~ Karl Marx > all modern "social justice" issues None of those are left wing. They're all liberal, which is a counter model to leftism. > They make no (or at least almost no) effort to present the center-right versions of the argument. They almost exclusively present the liberal argument, which is the center right.
    - DangitBobby 4y ago
      Do we have to get into a semantic debate about what left and right really mean every time? You know exactly what they mean.
      - malermeister 4y ago
        I'm sorry I don't like my beliefs being misrepresented and twisted into something I'm actively against?
        DangitBobby 4y ago
        The label you use to describe your beliefs is the same label that everyone else uses to describe a different set of beliefs, which you at least partially disagree with. We all know it and don't need to go over it every time.

tristor 4y ago

> That's what being left wing means. Identity politics are liberal, which is a right wing movement. I get your point, especially as someone on the left myself. That said, it’s more useful in conversations about American politics to understand the political dichotomy is centered on the American political Overton window, not on the center of all extant political philosophies. There has effectively been no real left wing party with national political presence in the US in the lifetimes of the majority of Americans alive today. Both major parties and nearly all smaller parties in US politics are right of extant center, but many are left of American center. “Liberals” aren’t even liberals in the US, anyway. “Liberals” in the US are populist globalists. Identity politics is arguably not affiliated with any particular political philosophy or party, but rather is a cynical methodology employed by many parties to create a social device to shift the political median in their direction. For whatever philosophical rigor you’d assign to identity politics, it’s at best an ideology, but lacks the necessary substance to be a complete philosophy. The left of the American center is mainly held by populist globalists, with orbiting positions which at its most collectivist aligns to environmentalism. The right of the American center is mainly held by populist nationalists, with orbiting positions which at it’s most collectivist aligns to religious fascism. American society is very deeply individualistic, and this is a major factor why populism holds so much sway and why collectivist philosophies exist in the fringes at best. Hopefully I’ve managed to short-circuit repeating the same comment subthread about semantics of the term “left wing” that happens in every HN thread about American politics.