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What makes Sunday so special? Why not just pass worker protection laws that prevent people from overworking, rather than dictating a magical day that nobody can

What makes Sunday so special? Why not just pass worker protection laws that prevent people from overworking, rather than dictating a magical day that nobody can work. It's a stupid idea and a dumb law that it only makes sense if your worker protection laws are too weak.

jodrellblank 4y ago
> "Why not just pass worker protection laws that prevent people from overworking" Provide your own answer here: why did the system which exists to exploit humans for profit do away with a free day instead of "just" passing worker protection laws? (Why did you frame it as "prevent people from overworking" instead of "prevent people from being overworked"?) > "It's a stupid idea and a dumb law that it only makes sense if your worker protection laws are too weak." Humans exist for more than just buying things. You may not like "A Sabbath for God" but "A day for something in life other than shopping" is an important idea. When September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks happened - great big terrorist attacks on American soil for pretty much the first time - President George Bush told Americans to "go shopping" in response. When many American teenagers grew up, they hung out at a shopping mall. Are you not lamenting the increasing feeling that you can't go out in public without being charged to be somewhere these days? Or the gradual turning of all walks of life into advertising and subscription services? Is any pushback on it "stupid and dumb" to you?
- ncallaway 4y ago
  > Why did you frame it as "prevent people from overworking" instead of "prevent people from being overworked"? I'm sorry I used the wrong words. > Humans exist for more than just buying things Yea, duh > "A day for something in life other than shopping" is an important idea That's fine. Why does it have to be the _same_ day for everyone? That's the stupid idea. Pass a law that says everyone must be given a full day off every week, I'm with you. Pass a law saying that day _must_ be Sunday, and I'm walking away. Hell, pass a law that says everyone must be given three full days off every week, I'm with you. Pass a law that says you have to pay someone 3x for every hour they work beyond 30 hours, I'm with you. Pass a law that says everyone must work 9am-3pm and I'm walking away. > Are you not lamenting the increasing feeling that you can't go out in public without being charged to be somewhere these days? Irrelevant to the conversation, but generally, no. > Or the gradual turning of all walks of life into advertising and subscription services? Irrelevant to the conversation, but yea, it's a hellscape. > Is any pushback on it "stupid and dumb" to you? Nope.
nikau 4y ago
Having a fixed day off allows people to plan leisure activities with friends and family as it was guaranteed they too would also have the day off.
- nulbyte 4y ago
  I don't think that answers the question. Suppose I want to go to the movies on my day off. I can't, precisely because everyone else is off, too.
  - nikau 4y ago
    yes - so in the past there were penalty rates like double time to compensate for that.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    entertainment venues, museums, restaurants, etc are usually getting an exception here. public transport and emergency services too. can't shut the country down. i am actually curious how they do that in israel where the jewish law not to work on sabbath is taken much more seriously.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      And why should they? Why should not those workers get same rights? Are they somehow lesser? Just give them also mandatory time off on same day. And then they like others can take some other time free to go to those places.
      - em-bee 4y ago
        well, i don't know about the specific rules for work on sunday in these places, but generally, when you accept a job there you know in advance that there will be work on sundays, so if you don't want that, don't take that kind of job.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  So, should this be extended to all workers? And all places that people might spend leisure time? Let's say restaurants and bars, cinemas, public swimming pools, markets, amusement parks. As those people should have same exact rights to spend leisure time with their families and friends.
em-bee 4y ago
children don't go to school on sunday, having the right to take sunday off instead of some other weekday is a benefit for families.
- ncallaway 4y ago
  I feel like this is the best argument for it but… it leaves a lot of holes? What about Saturdays, or other non-school days? And… just protection for retail workers? Is there a reason it wouldn’t apply to all workers below a certain pay range (or maybe it did, and the “no shopping” rule is just a shorthand?)
  - em-bee 4y ago
    it does apply to all employees. and actually, in germany for example, the rule is not that shops must be closed. you can open your shop if you can run it yourself, without any employees help. depending on the country, saturdays can be school days, but generally nowadays, the rule extended to saturday as well, actually, with the exception of retail. it used to be that saturdays were half work days. and of national holidays are equal to sundays.

jodrellblank 4y ago

> "Why not just pass worker protection laws that prevent people from overworking" Provide your own answer here: why did the system which exists to exploit humans for profit do away with a free day instead of "just" passing worker protection laws? (Why did you frame it as "prevent people from overworking" instead of "prevent people from being overworked"?) > "It's a stupid idea and a dumb law that it only makes sense if your worker protection laws are too weak." Humans exist for more than just buying things. You may not like "A Sabbath for God" but "A day for something in life other than shopping" is an important idea. When September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks happened - great big terrorist attacks on American soil for pretty much the first time - President George Bush told Americans to "go shopping" in response. When many American teenagers grew up, they hung out at a shopping mall. Are you not lamenting the increasing feeling that you can't go out in public without being charged to be somewhere these days? Or the gradual turning of all walks of life into advertising and subscription services? Is any pushback on it "stupid and dumb" to you?

ncallaway 4y ago
> Why did you frame it as "prevent people from overworking" instead of "prevent people from being overworked"? I'm sorry I used the wrong words. > Humans exist for more than just buying things Yea, duh > "A day for something in life other than shopping" is an important idea That's fine. Why does it have to be the _same_ day for everyone? That's the stupid idea. Pass a law that says everyone must be given a full day off every week, I'm with you. Pass a law saying that day _must_ be Sunday, and I'm walking away. Hell, pass a law that says everyone must be given three full days off every week, I'm with you. Pass a law that says you have to pay someone 3x for every hour they work beyond 30 hours, I'm with you. Pass a law that says everyone must work 9am-3pm and I'm walking away. > Are you not lamenting the increasing feeling that you can't go out in public without being charged to be somewhere these days? Irrelevant to the conversation, but generally, no. > Or the gradual turning of all walks of life into advertising and subscription services? Irrelevant to the conversation, but yea, it's a hellscape. > Is any pushback on it "stupid and dumb" to you? Nope.

nikau 4y ago

Having a fixed day off allows people to plan leisure activities with friends and family as it was guaranteed they too would also have the day off.

nulbyte 4y ago
I don't think that answers the question. Suppose I want to go to the movies on my day off. I can't, precisely because everyone else is off, too.
- nikau 4y ago
  yes - so in the past there were penalty rates like double time to compensate for that.
- em-bee 4y ago
  entertainment venues, museums, restaurants, etc are usually getting an exception here. public transport and emergency services too. can't shut the country down. i am actually curious how they do that in israel where the jewish law not to work on sabbath is taken much more seriously.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    And why should they? Why should not those workers get same rights? Are they somehow lesser? Just give them also mandatory time off on same day. And then they like others can take some other time free to go to those places.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      well, i don't know about the specific rules for work on sunday in these places, but generally, when you accept a job there you know in advance that there will be work on sundays, so if you don't want that, don't take that kind of job.
Ekaros 4y ago
So, should this be extended to all workers? And all places that people might spend leisure time? Let's say restaurants and bars, cinemas, public swimming pools, markets, amusement parks. As those people should have same exact rights to spend leisure time with their families and friends.

em-bee 4y ago

children don't go to school on sunday, having the right to take sunday off instead of some other weekday is a benefit for families.

ncallaway 4y ago
I feel like this is the best argument for it but… it leaves a lot of holes? What about Saturdays, or other non-school days? And… just protection for retail workers? Is there a reason it wouldn’t apply to all workers below a certain pay range (or maybe it did, and the “no shopping” rule is just a shorthand?)
- em-bee 4y ago
  it does apply to all employees. and actually, in germany for example, the rule is not that shops must be closed. you can open your shop if you can run it yourself, without any employees help. depending on the country, saturdays can be school days, but generally nowadays, the rule extended to saturday as well, actually, with the exception of retail. it used to be that saturdays were half work days. and of national holidays are equal to sundays.