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Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? If you have deeper pockets than your competitor you could blee

Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? If you have deeper pockets than your competitor you could bleed them dry by offering it for free until they're dead and then "coincidentally" not being able to afford keeping it free after that. I distrust free services as a consumer at this point, but I think it's unrealistic to expect enough people to do that to keep it from being a way of distorting the market and stifling competition. If it's less of a dirty trick and more of a "shit, we thought we'd figure something out, but we didn't" then I still think there being more scrutiny/regulation around free services could be beneficial purely to push companies away from stupid self-defeating and market-harming business models?

mulmen 4y ago
$0.00 is a price like any other. A free service is a special case of the loss leader. How far do you extend this extra scrutiny?
- brookst 4y ago
  Maybe Linux should be illegal? It’s such an odd position. Like, the age old razors / razor blades model should be illegal? Video game consoles / video games? Subsidizing an initial purchase by charging for ongoing services is so core to our economy that I’m not sure what it would look like to prohibit it.
  - di456 4y ago
    Linux isn't a service
    - ehutch79 4y ago
      Sure it is, just like docker, the code might be free , but there’s plenty of enterprise support contracts. I imagine a lawyer could convince a jury of people who have never heard of hacker news, gnu, etc that this is true.
      - di456 4y ago
        Free enterprise support contracts?
        ehutch79 4y ago
        No, the thread stems from above where it's basically indicated that free things should be illegal if there's things being sold off the back of it. The precedent things like this would create could easily be extended to other things. Good lawyers could hold things the OP isn't think about to this standard. Especially if theres a jury uninformed about the topic at hand.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        So not a service, rather software surrounded by unaffiliated services? This post is about the official service part of Docker. To my knowledge there is no official Linux service.
        brookst 4y ago
        Do you get new versions on physical media?
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        No, I get them from unaffiliated hosting, like package managers or SCM.
        ehutch79 4y ago
        Read what I said again. It's not about what you know or not. This kind of precedent could easily be applied to things it shouldn't be, or rather things you don't think it should be. try explaining all this to someone uninterested or uninformed about technology. A cubicle worker or something.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        You cannot fork a service. Linux can be forked because it is software. All the effort that surrounds it may be considered a service (often paid, sometimes subsidized). But that's distinct. People understand very well the product vs service distinction. They notice every time they check their credit card statement.
    - brookst 4y ago
      That will be a surprise to all of the people investing lots of time giving you continuous updates and improvements.
- di456 4y ago
  A couple ideas: Anti-dumping laws for well capitalized companies engaging in anti-competitive behavior sales tax based on the cost of services
watwut 4y ago
> Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? To be fair, it is fairly often an anti-competitive behavior. And we are not better off for it.
Viliam1234 4y ago
> Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? Perhaps if you offer a free service, you should be legally required to either post a notice "this service may switch to a paid version at any moment with a 30 days warning", or make a public promise "this service will be provided for free until 2030" (or any other year). You are allowed to increase the year later. In the former case, you could be sued if the notice is deliberately hidden. In the latter case, not providing the free service would be considered a breach of contract.

mulmen 4y ago

$0.00 is a price like any other. A free service is a special case of the loss leader. How far do you extend this extra scrutiny?

brookst 4y ago
Maybe Linux should be illegal? It’s such an odd position. Like, the age old razors / razor blades model should be illegal? Video game consoles / video games? Subsidizing an initial purchase by charging for ongoing services is so core to our economy that I’m not sure what it would look like to prohibit it.
- di456 4y ago
  Linux isn't a service
  - ehutch79 4y ago
    Sure it is, just like docker, the code might be free , but there’s plenty of enterprise support contracts. I imagine a lawyer could convince a jury of people who have never heard of hacker news, gnu, etc that this is true.
    - di456 4y ago
      Free enterprise support contracts?
      - ehutch79 4y ago
        No, the thread stems from above where it's basically indicated that free things should be illegal if there's things being sold off the back of it. The precedent things like this would create could easily be extended to other things. Good lawyers could hold things the OP isn't think about to this standard. Especially if theres a jury uninformed about the topic at hand.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      So not a service, rather software surrounded by unaffiliated services? This post is about the official service part of Docker. To my knowledge there is no official Linux service.
      - brookst 4y ago
        Do you get new versions on physical media?
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        No, I get them from unaffiliated hosting, like package managers or SCM.
      - ehutch79 4y ago
        Read what I said again. It's not about what you know or not. This kind of precedent could easily be applied to things it shouldn't be, or rather things you don't think it should be. try explaining all this to someone uninterested or uninformed about technology. A cubicle worker or something.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        You cannot fork a service. Linux can be forked because it is software. All the effort that surrounds it may be considered a service (often paid, sometimes subsidized). But that's distinct. People understand very well the product vs service distinction. They notice every time they check their credit card statement.
  - brookst 4y ago
    That will be a surprise to all of the people investing lots of time giving you continuous updates and improvements.
di456 4y ago
A couple ideas: Anti-dumping laws for well capitalized companies engaging in anti-competitive behavior sales tax based on the cost of services

watwut 4y ago

> Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? To be fair, it is fairly often an anti-competitive behavior. And we are not better off for it.

Viliam1234 4y ago

> Should free services be heavily scrutinized as an anti-competitive dirty marketing tactic, then? Perhaps if you offer a free service, you should be legally required to either post a notice "this service may switch to a paid version at any moment with a 30 days warning", or make a public promise "this service will be provided for free until 2030" (or any other year). You are allowed to increase the year later. In the former case, you could be sued if the notice is deliberately hidden. In the latter case, not providing the free service would be considered a breach of contract.