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Exactly. Saying "Skill X is the new norm" based on the fact that your life revolves around skill X is a clear case of needing to get out more. Programming is

Exactly. Saying "Skill X is the new norm" based on the fact that your life revolves around skill X is a clear case of needing to get out more. Programming is to computer use what engine overhaul is to driving a car. You can argue that driving a car is an essential skill for modern day life, but being a mechanic is most certainly not. Being a mechanic might make you a better driver, and will certainly make you less reliant on mechanics, but it is by no means a requirement.

mechanical_fish 15y ago
Being a mechanic might make you a better driver, and will certainly make you less reliant on mechanics... Neither of these things are always true. This is something that tinkerers often struggle to grok. Consider that the safest way to travel from one place to another is probably on a plane: The vehicle which you are least likely to understand. Moreover, even if you do understand modern jet aircraft and the airlines that fly them, that knowledge won't do you much good, because you have very few knobs which you're empowered to turn. But they constitute a very highly-designed system involving reliable avionics backed-up by redundant highly trained and well-rehearsed pilots with their lives on the line. And the statistics show that you're not going to improve on that. So sit back and have a ginger ale and wait for the plane to land. As with travel, so with many things in our modern world. Does knowing something about cryptography (a) make you significantly less reliant on professional cryptographers, or (b) make your software more secure? According to security experts I've read, the answers are (a) no, unless you want your software to be less secure and (b) perhaps, but only if you fully appreciate the answer to (a). If knowing a few things about crypto tempts you to deploy crypto that you implemented yourself, it's actually counterproductive if the goal is to produce secure production software. (As a hobby or an educational toy, of course, I'm obviously a big fan of tinkering. But not everyone needs to have the same hobby.)
_delirium 15y ago
It does seem fairly common for people to think that their profession is something everyone needs to know, and sometimes the arguments are even pretty good. I've met several lawyers who believe that everyone should be legally trained, at least to a basic level, because the impact of law is so pervasive in modern society (even here on HN, a good portion of our discussions are about law).
- tikhonj 15y ago
  And that, actually, is a very good point as well: after all, ignorance is not a valid defense! Just because something is common does not mean it is wrong.

mechanical_fish 15y ago

Being a mechanic might make you a better driver, and will certainly make you less reliant on mechanics... Neither of these things are always true. This is something that tinkerers often struggle to grok. Consider that the safest way to travel from one place to another is probably on a plane: The vehicle which you are least likely to understand. Moreover, even if you do understand modern jet aircraft and the airlines that fly them, that knowledge won't do you much good, because you have very few knobs which you're empowered to turn. But they constitute a very highly-designed system involving reliable avionics backed-up by redundant highly trained and well-rehearsed pilots with their lives on the line. And the statistics show that you're not going to improve on that. So sit back and have a ginger ale and wait for the plane to land. As with travel, so with many things in our modern world. Does knowing something about cryptography (a) make you significantly less reliant on professional cryptographers, or (b) make your software more secure? According to security experts I've read, the answers are (a) no, unless you want your software to be less secure and (b) perhaps, but only if you fully appreciate the answer to (a). If knowing a few things about crypto tempts you to deploy crypto that you implemented yourself, it's actually counterproductive if the goal is to produce secure production software. (As a hobby or an educational toy, of course, I'm obviously a big fan of tinkering. But not everyone needs to have the same hobby.)

_delirium 15y ago

It does seem fairly common for people to think that their profession is something everyone needs to know, and sometimes the arguments are even pretty good. I've met several lawyers who believe that everyone should be legally trained, at least to a basic level, because the impact of law is so pervasive in modern society (even here on HN, a good portion of our discussions are about law).

tikhonj 15y ago
And that, actually, is a very good point as well: after all, ignorance is not a valid defense! Just because something is common does not mean it is wrong.