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If they are willing to go to such extremes to censor books how do they feel about the internet? The internet has a reach that is orders of magnitude greater tha

If they are willing to go to such extremes to censor books how do they feel about the internet? The internet has a reach that is orders of magnitude greater than books, but I never hear about lawmakers attempting to shut down the internet or part of the internet. Is it just too decentralized to even attempt or is their pursuit of book censorship just for show to impress their followers?

kneebonian 4y ago
Well recently they went after a journalist for "hacking the government website" after he ran an article about how they had a bunch of people's SS#s in the source code of one of their webpages so I'm not sure Missouri is too keen on it either.
- kimbernator 4y ago
  Just a nitpick, but "source code" might imply that it was something secretive. The guy found SSNs of teachers in MO served up publicly on a state website within the page's HTML. The governor went on a crusade against this guy because he didn't understand it, and despite being told by numerous experts that there was no case, he kept it going. The worst part was that this guy was beyond reproach - he went out of his way to notify people and said he wouldn't mention it to news outlets etc until the issue was resolved. It was a clear case of the governor misusing his power to prosecute a free press that he didn't like using a pretext he knew was incorrect. While it's funny to poke at the governor for this, I personally believe it should have caused his removal from office. https://missouriindependent.com/2022/02/23/claim-that-reporter-hacked-state-website-was-debunked-parson-still-says-hes-a-criminal/ https://missouriindependent.com/2022/02/23/claim-that-report... excerpt: State education officials initially wanted to thank Renaud for discovering the problem that, as investigators would learn, has existed undetected since 2011. And an FBI agent who looked at the incident informed the state that it was “not an actual network intrusion,” noting that the website in question “allowed open source tools to be used to query data that should not be public.” State officials made it clear the information was on a public site, it was not encrypted or password protected and the reporter was not anywhere he wasn’t allowed. The governor decided to blame a government failing on the reporter who discovered it. Despite all this, Parson convened a press conference to label the reporter a “hacker” and demand a highway patrol investigation. He accused the Post-Dispatch of trying to use the security flaw to embarrass him, and his political action committee launched ads to raise money off Parson’s attacks.
Avshalom 4y ago
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/22/south-carolina-bill-abortion-websites/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/22/south-c... https://mashable.com/article/texas-abortion-website-bill https://mashable.com/article/texas-abortion-website-bill
tomatotomato37 4y ago
Generally if you are out-of-touch enough to think libraries are important facets of societal knowledge that require sexual policing rather than a book warehouse with free wifi than you are out-of-touch enough to think the internet only consists of Facebook and google searches to Facebook
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  there are well establish web blocking & policing tools. most libraries use them. and most of the people there to use the internet don't have access to the web on their own -- they're not going to be the most internet savvy users. it's not impossible for Jim-Bob the toothless iterant to get to the Pronz on library computer -- i'm sure it happens, in much the same way i'm sure it happens on school computer lab systems -- but it is certainly the minority. tbh i'd be more worried about doomscrollers and kids playing online games burning bandwidth and bogarting the systems
philipov 4y ago
Well, that fight is happening on the scale of entire nations, isn't it? States wouldn't logically have jurisdiction over it because it's interstate commerce, but at the federal and international level, it's definitely at issue.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mulmen 4y ago
Libraries are a lot more than just places to check out books. Most libraries provide Internet access and other information services, such as classes and workshops. So by cutting this funding they may well be depriving people of Internet access. > but I never hear about lawmakers attempting to shut down the internet or part of the internet They definitely like to meddle there too.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Might also make it more difficult to apply for government programs and register to vote etc...
prasadjoglekar 4y ago
It's not censoring books; rather a state choosing which books to publicly fund in school libraries. No one is banning parents from buying those books on their own dime. Schools are publicly funded by taxes; those taxes are apportioned by elected representatives. The legislature has the right to dictate what the money can and can't be used for. That's not censorship.
- kimbernator 4y ago
  Not everyone can afford to just buy whatever books they want, but they still pay taxes. It's a huge cop-out to say "oh it's not banning the books completely, just removing the only method by which tons of people are able to access that literature." It's a huge violation of the spirit of libraries. It is effectively censorship. I guaranteed that the bible, despite portraying just about every subject they are trying to hide, is present in every single school library in the state. Saying that kids only get free access to the books the state legislators agree with is absolutely censorship.
- DSMan195276 4y ago
  So then it would be fine if a parent bought such a book and donated it to a school library?
- remarkEon 4y ago
  What's been really jarring about this issue is that everyone is calling it a "book ban", when it demonstrably is not. It's removing certain (in some cases pornographic) material from school curricula and libraries. Maybe you can steelman an argument that goes something like "if they remove this from school curricula and libraries, they'll try to remove it from the [everywhere else] too". This is of course silly. Plus, you can just go actually read the text of these laws.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    >(in some cases pornographic) so what was going on in all those other cases? >they'll try to remove it from the [everywhere else] too" https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/05/gop-lawmaker-petitions-court-ban-barnes-noble-selling-queer-book/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/05/gop-lawmaker-petitions-c... hey look they've already started escalating. Now, that one got dismissed but yeah, your "steelman" is not in fact "silly"
anigbrowl 4y ago
I don't think the Tiktok discourse from politicians is in entirely good faith either. The chair in the committee hearing yesterday was making lofty denunciations of the sort they would condemn if they came from the other party.
e40 4y ago
The book bans are clearly step 1 in a long list of steps.

kneebonian 4y ago

Well recently they went after a journalist for "hacking the government website" after he ran an article about how they had a bunch of people's SS#s in the source code of one of their webpages so I'm not sure Missouri is too keen on it either.

kimbernator 4y ago
Just a nitpick, but "source code" might imply that it was something secretive. The guy found SSNs of teachers in MO served up publicly on a state website within the page's HTML. The governor went on a crusade against this guy because he didn't understand it, and despite being told by numerous experts that there was no case, he kept it going. The worst part was that this guy was beyond reproach - he went out of his way to notify people and said he wouldn't mention it to news outlets etc until the issue was resolved. It was a clear case of the governor misusing his power to prosecute a free press that he didn't like using a pretext he knew was incorrect. While it's funny to poke at the governor for this, I personally believe it should have caused his removal from office. https://missouriindependent.com/2022/02/23/claim-that-reporter-hacked-state-website-was-debunked-parson-still-says-hes-a-criminal/ https://missouriindependent.com/2022/02/23/claim-that-report... excerpt: State education officials initially wanted to thank Renaud for discovering the problem that, as investigators would learn, has existed undetected since 2011. And an FBI agent who looked at the incident informed the state that it was “not an actual network intrusion,” noting that the website in question “allowed open source tools to be used to query data that should not be public.” State officials made it clear the information was on a public site, it was not encrypted or password protected and the reporter was not anywhere he wasn’t allowed. The governor decided to blame a government failing on the reporter who discovered it. Despite all this, Parson convened a press conference to label the reporter a “hacker” and demand a highway patrol investigation. He accused the Post-Dispatch of trying to use the security flaw to embarrass him, and his political action committee launched ads to raise money off Parson’s attacks.

Avshalom 4y ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/22/south-carolina-bill-abortion-websites/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/07/22/south-c... https://mashable.com/article/texas-abortion-website-bill https://mashable.com/article/texas-abortion-website-bill

tomatotomato37 4y ago

Generally if you are out-of-touch enough to think libraries are important facets of societal knowledge that require sexual policing rather than a book warehouse with free wifi than you are out-of-touch enough to think the internet only consists of Facebook and google searches to Facebook

red-iron-pine 4y ago
there are well establish web blocking & policing tools. most libraries use them. and most of the people there to use the internet don't have access to the web on their own -- they're not going to be the most internet savvy users. it's not impossible for Jim-Bob the toothless iterant to get to the Pronz on library computer -- i'm sure it happens, in much the same way i'm sure it happens on school computer lab systems -- but it is certainly the minority. tbh i'd be more worried about doomscrollers and kids playing online games burning bandwidth and bogarting the systems

philipov 4y ago

Well, that fight is happening on the scale of entire nations, isn't it? States wouldn't logically have jurisdiction over it because it's interstate commerce, but at the federal and international level, it's definitely at issue.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mulmen 4y ago

Libraries are a lot more than just places to check out books. Most libraries provide Internet access and other information services, such as classes and workshops. So by cutting this funding they may well be depriving people of Internet access. > but I never hear about lawmakers attempting to shut down the internet or part of the internet They definitely like to meddle there too.

barbazoo 4y ago
Might also make it more difficult to apply for government programs and register to vote etc...

prasadjoglekar 4y ago

It's not censoring books; rather a state choosing which books to publicly fund in school libraries. No one is banning parents from buying those books on their own dime. Schools are publicly funded by taxes; those taxes are apportioned by elected representatives. The legislature has the right to dictate what the money can and can't be used for. That's not censorship.

kimbernator 4y ago
Not everyone can afford to just buy whatever books they want, but they still pay taxes. It's a huge cop-out to say "oh it's not banning the books completely, just removing the only method by which tons of people are able to access that literature." It's a huge violation of the spirit of libraries. It is effectively censorship. I guaranteed that the bible, despite portraying just about every subject they are trying to hide, is present in every single school library in the state. Saying that kids only get free access to the books the state legislators agree with is absolutely censorship.
DSMan195276 4y ago
So then it would be fine if a parent bought such a book and donated it to a school library?
remarkEon 4y ago
What's been really jarring about this issue is that everyone is calling it a "book ban", when it demonstrably is not. It's removing certain (in some cases pornographic) material from school curricula and libraries. Maybe you can steelman an argument that goes something like "if they remove this from school curricula and libraries, they'll try to remove it from the [everywhere else] too". This is of course silly. Plus, you can just go actually read the text of these laws.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Avshalom 4y ago
  >(in some cases pornographic) so what was going on in all those other cases? >they'll try to remove it from the [everywhere else] too" https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/05/gop-lawmaker-petitions-court-ban-barnes-noble-selling-queer-book/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/05/gop-lawmaker-petitions-c... hey look they've already started escalating. Now, that one got dismissed but yeah, your "steelman" is not in fact "silly"

anigbrowl 4y ago

I don't think the Tiktok discourse from politicians is in entirely good faith either. The chair in the committee hearing yesterday was making lofty denunciations of the sort they would condemn if they came from the other party.

e40 4y ago

The book bans are clearly step 1 in a long list of steps.