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As a european that frequently discusses political topics with people from the US, I recall times when conservatives over there were all about "small government"

by atoav 4y ago

As a european that frequently discusses political topics with people from the US, I recall times when conservatives over there were all about "small government" and "freedom of speech" and how they would literally fight for those rights (that's what the second amendment was written for in their eyes). Where are those people today? Why are they not more vocal? Or were these values always just a veneer for something else that now comes to light?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Where are those people today? Why are they not more vocal? When you hear talk about the establishment versus populist wings of the GOP, this is what's being referred to.
killjoywashere 4y ago
Small government is code for cutting welfare spending and regulation of business activities. Freedom of speech is code for a lot of things. In conservative circles it means the right to burn books, incite insurrections, and eventually burn crosses on the lawns of people of color and have women wear red robes and white headscarves.
KevinEldon 4y ago
The state unanimously passed a law to exclude sexually explicit books from public school libraries. A reasonable thing to do. The library association and the ACLU decided they wanted to sue the state. The state, in turn, removed the relatively small amount of funds allocated for the libraries. FaFo. All of this is in the article.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Suing to dispute the constitutionality of a law is also a reasonable thing to do. Cutting funding prior to the adjudication of the legal dispute seems like a legislative attempt to pre-empt the judicial process. 'FaFo' is shorthand for 'Fuck around and find out', yes? I'm not sure this internet tough guy approach is going to persuade anyone.
- atoav 4y ago
  Why is this reasonable? Children come in touch with porn at earlier and earlier ages and they may be very confused by that. The school provides a good space to learn something a bit more realistic about sexuality at the appropriate ages. But of course as a european I know that the US in parts has extremely prude ideas (your censorship also affects us). That being said, there are many modern nations where kids learn about sex in school for a while now, and they didn't develop psychological trauma or anxiety because of that (quite the opposite). It isn't as if there are no studies done in that field. But prude morality seems to trump everything. Some don't seem to realize that supressing sexuality is something religions tend to do for a reason (and it is not the good of their hearts).
tekmate 4y ago
if you frequently discuss these topics you should be aware that those were always just nice sounding soundbites that were never rooted in any kind of conviction
deleted 4y ago
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dannyobrien 4y ago
Not that I'd agree with them, but I don't see the inconsistency: cutting funding of libraries is smaller government. The question of whether school book bans violates the First Amendment is a contested one, and has some interplay with the current pushes on left and right to control what is available online. Basically, it revolves around whether you think determining what content is in a school library is censorship, or just one of the functions of government. The U.S. Supreme Court was divided on it the last time it came up. https://reason.com/volokh/2023/02/27/does-the-first-amendment-bar-public-schools-from-removing-school-library-books-based-on-their-viewpoints/ https://reason.com/volokh/2023/02/27/does-the-first-amendmen...
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  cutting funding of libraries is smaller government Not if the funds are just spent elsewhere.

by atoav 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Where are those people today? Why are they not more vocal? When you hear talk about the establishment versus populist wings of the GOP, this is what's being referred to.

killjoywashere 4y ago

Small government is code for cutting welfare spending and regulation of business activities. Freedom of speech is code for a lot of things. In conservative circles it means the right to burn books, incite insurrections, and eventually burn crosses on the lawns of people of color and have women wear red robes and white headscarves.

KevinEldon 4y ago

The state unanimously passed a law to exclude sexually explicit books from public school libraries. A reasonable thing to do. The library association and the ACLU decided they wanted to sue the state. The state, in turn, removed the relatively small amount of funds allocated for the libraries. FaFo. All of this is in the article.

anigbrowl 4y ago
Suing to dispute the constitutionality of a law is also a reasonable thing to do. Cutting funding prior to the adjudication of the legal dispute seems like a legislative attempt to pre-empt the judicial process. 'FaFo' is shorthand for 'Fuck around and find out', yes? I'm not sure this internet tough guy approach is going to persuade anyone.
atoav 4y ago
Why is this reasonable? Children come in touch with porn at earlier and earlier ages and they may be very confused by that. The school provides a good space to learn something a bit more realistic about sexuality at the appropriate ages. But of course as a european I know that the US in parts has extremely prude ideas (your censorship also affects us). That being said, there are many modern nations where kids learn about sex in school for a while now, and they didn't develop psychological trauma or anxiety because of that (quite the opposite). It isn't as if there are no studies done in that field. But prude morality seems to trump everything. Some don't seem to realize that supressing sexuality is something religions tend to do for a reason (and it is not the good of their hearts).

tekmate 4y ago

if you frequently discuss these topics you should be aware that those were always just nice sounding soundbites that were never rooted in any kind of conviction

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dannyobrien 4y ago

Not that I'd agree with them, but I don't see the inconsistency: cutting funding of libraries is smaller government. The question of whether school book bans violates the First Amendment is a contested one, and has some interplay with the current pushes on left and right to control what is available online. Basically, it revolves around whether you think determining what content is in a school library is censorship, or just one of the functions of government. The U.S. Supreme Court was divided on it the last time it came up. https://reason.com/volokh/2023/02/27/does-the-first-amendment-bar-public-schools-from-removing-school-library-books-based-on-their-viewpoints/ https://reason.com/volokh/2023/02/27/does-the-first-amendmen...

anigbrowl 4y ago
cutting funding of libraries is smaller government Not if the funds are just spent elsewhere.