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I don't really understand or appreciate what makes this framework better than something like Backbone, Spine or Sproutcore. Or to put it in another way: What p

by arnorhs 15y ago

I don't really understand or appreciate what makes this framework better than something like Backbone, Spine or Sproutcore. Or to put it in another way: What problem does this solve that Backbone/Spine/Sproutcore don't solve as well?

jpeterson 15y ago
It seems like *.js framework is the new "Hello World".
- phillmv 15y ago
  No, no, those are todo list apps. Besides, we're still in the first to second generation of js rich client frameworks. All this crazy amount of experimentation is great; it'll settle down more towards the fourth to fifth generation.
  - jsavimbi 15y ago
    I'd argue that we're in the third generation already.
    - phillmv 15y ago
      I don't follow the js world super closely. What would you say were the first two (rich client/single page framework) gens?
      - jsavimbi 15y ago
        I would cite early attempts at JS-generated views that I worked on in the late '90s/early '00s (and I assume other people were doing similar things at the time) and the various RIA frameworks that appeared on the scene circa '04-'05 spawned by Ajax that through no fault of their own tried to rediscover widget-based portal solutions in JS. See Flex, Laszlo and others. Also tried was XUL, all very limited and one-sided. What we're seeing today is are mostly front-end MVC solutions that have a more populist approach towards platform and usability as those two have matured substantially due to the current global propagation of a certain genre of apps. I hate to admit it, but Facebook has done wonders in terms of providing feedback as to how much a user will tolerate beyond static HTML as well as educating the user to accept as standard certain classes of JS functionality as they iterate through implementations.
  - pacomerh 15y ago
    Ha! indeed, todo apps are the new hello world. Regarding the .JS frameworks, I actually think it's a good thing that many are being created, this grows the community and the need to solve problems in different ways, more ideas, feedback, etc. Check this review of the most popular MVC frameworks, http://goo.gl/2VhZX http://goo.gl/2VhZX
  - dustinrodrigues 15y ago
    All these frameworks make me think of this XKCD: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/
  - jnicklas 15y ago
    I actually wrote a todo list app as an example (https://github.com/elabs/serenade_todomvc https://github.com/elabs/serenade_todomvc), I'm going to go hide now ;)
- bionicbrian 15y ago
  Ha! When I saw the headline I did think "MVC Frameworks are the new Todo List app". I knew someone would say something to that effect. :) That said, the amount of effort in these frameworks is admirable and pushes ideas and best practices forward.
goblin89 15y ago
I don't think it makes sense to compare this to Backbone.js, which is more of a library than framework.
weixiyen 15y ago
It's not about solving a problem. It's about solving the same problem slightly better. The reason why new MVC frameworks pop up all the time is because everybody organizes and writes their code differently based on their own use cases and mental model of how things should work. There is no ubiquitous JS MVC framework because to be honest, either the APIs out there are not very good or it's too much overhead to simply pick up and use for a beginner in many cases.
dagw 15y ago
I don't know, but reading through this framework gave me an instant, "I can use this in my current project" feel that Backbone/Spine/Sproutcore didn't. As someone else pointed out it's not so much about solving different problems or solving problems better, as solving problems in a way that feels more natural to your problem and style of programming.
SonicSoul 15y ago
it's "super pretty"
jonicklas 15y ago
Good point, I wrote up a blog post explaining why I wrote Serenade. I don't feel that it solves any new problems, but it solves existing problems in a different way. Check it out! http://elabs.se/blog/33-why-serenade http://elabs.se/blog/33-why-serenade

by arnorhs 15y ago

jpeterson 15y ago

It seems like *.js framework is the new "Hello World".

phillmv 15y ago
No, no, those are todo list apps. Besides, we're still in the first to second generation of js rich client frameworks. All this crazy amount of experimentation is great; it'll settle down more towards the fourth to fifth generation.
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  I'd argue that we're in the third generation already.
  - phillmv 15y ago
    I don't follow the js world super closely. What would you say were the first two (rich client/single page framework) gens?
    - jsavimbi 15y ago
      I would cite early attempts at JS-generated views that I worked on in the late '90s/early '00s (and I assume other people were doing similar things at the time) and the various RIA frameworks that appeared on the scene circa '04-'05 spawned by Ajax that through no fault of their own tried to rediscover widget-based portal solutions in JS. See Flex, Laszlo and others. Also tried was XUL, all very limited and one-sided. What we're seeing today is are mostly front-end MVC solutions that have a more populist approach towards platform and usability as those two have matured substantially due to the current global propagation of a certain genre of apps. I hate to admit it, but Facebook has done wonders in terms of providing feedback as to how much a user will tolerate beyond static HTML as well as educating the user to accept as standard certain classes of JS functionality as they iterate through implementations.
- pacomerh 15y ago
  Ha! indeed, todo apps are the new hello world. Regarding the .JS frameworks, I actually think it's a good thing that many are being created, this grows the community and the need to solve problems in different ways, more ideas, feedback, etc. Check this review of the most popular MVC frameworks, http://goo.gl/2VhZX http://goo.gl/2VhZX
- dustinrodrigues 15y ago
  All these frameworks make me think of this XKCD: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/
- jnicklas 15y ago
  I actually wrote a todo list app as an example (https://github.com/elabs/serenade_todomvc https://github.com/elabs/serenade_todomvc), I'm going to go hide now ;)
bionicbrian 15y ago
Ha! When I saw the headline I did think "MVC Frameworks are the new Todo List app". I knew someone would say something to that effect. :) That said, the amount of effort in these frameworks is admirable and pushes ideas and best practices forward.

goblin89 15y ago

I don't think it makes sense to compare this to Backbone.js, which is more of a library than framework.

weixiyen 15y ago

It's not about solving a problem. It's about solving the same problem slightly better. The reason why new MVC frameworks pop up all the time is because everybody organizes and writes their code differently based on their own use cases and mental model of how things should work. There is no ubiquitous JS MVC framework because to be honest, either the APIs out there are not very good or it's too much overhead to simply pick up and use for a beginner in many cases.

dagw 15y ago

I don't know, but reading through this framework gave me an instant, "I can use this in my current project" feel that Backbone/Spine/Sproutcore didn't. As someone else pointed out it's not so much about solving different problems or solving problems better, as solving problems in a way that feels more natural to your problem and style of programming.

SonicSoul 15y ago

it's "super pretty"

jonicklas 15y ago

Good point, I wrote up a blog post explaining why I wrote Serenade. I don't feel that it solves any new problems, but it solves existing problems in a different way. Check it out! http://elabs.se/blog/33-why-serenade http://elabs.se/blog/33-why-serenade