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Haha, I noticed my coworkers do that when they're speaking Hindi or Chinese too. All the key words are in English, so you step in and say "Oh, you guys are tal

Haha, I noticed my coworkers do that when they're speaking Hindi or Chinese too. All the key words are in English, so you step in and say "Oh, you guys are talking about that iterator bug?" and they're shocked: "Wow, you speak Chinese?"

nneonneo 4y ago
Chinese, unlike Japanese or Korean, lacks a consistent phonetic mechanism for "importing" foreign words. Phonetic approximations are, with few exceptions, limited to foreign names. As such, practically every bit of jargon is semantically translated (examples include 电脑 "electronic brain" for computer, 端口 "end opening" for port), but since most programming is done in English-based languages, it's not uncommon for Chinese programmers to be more familiar with the English jargon.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  I don't know how you'd better express 'port' than end-opening. After all it refers to the place where boats are loaded and unloaded. Honestly the semantic translation seems a far more apt term. I guess there's something like 港 but that's probably just more confusing.
  - q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
    > Honestly the semantic translation seems a far more apt term. That's interesting. For me, the port metaphor makes me think data port, which seems like a pretty apt parallel to the flow of goods at a shipping port. Different metaphors for different folks, I suppose.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Fair enough! It's interesting to think about the literal meaning of the keywords and industry jargon in English too.
- iisan7 4y ago
  Interestingly, many glosses using Chinese characters (not all, but many) were from Japan-- sometimes used phonetically (e.g. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004438200_008 https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004438200_008), and sometimes used to translate concepts. Chinese imported many such loan words for technology from glosses that were made in Japan with kanji for words which had no existing equivalent in Chinese (https://www.jstor.org/stable/23754127 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23754127). But then Japan increasingly gave up new words in favor of transliteration, while Chinese continued to have this need. Chinese words that are phonetic approximations of foreign words are perhaps less common, but by no means rare. They're not all from English (e.g., 'grapes' is a transliteration from Indo-Iranian), and sometimes you have to look at the Cantonese pronunciation to hear the resemblance to English, and sometimes they're neatly hidden by a choice of word that fits well phonetically _and_ semantically.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  This has been true for Finnish also, more because of a stuffy language office that wanted to avoid unnatural influences. Computer = tietokone = knowledge machine Swap file = heittovaihtotiedosto = throw exchange record set (or some such). So yeah, Finnish programmers rarely used the official words.

nneonneo 4y ago

Chinese, unlike Japanese or Korean, lacks a consistent phonetic mechanism for "importing" foreign words. Phonetic approximations are, with few exceptions, limited to foreign names. As such, practically every bit of jargon is semantically translated (examples include 电脑 "electronic brain" for computer, 端口 "end opening" for port), but since most programming is done in English-based languages, it's not uncommon for Chinese programmers to be more familiar with the English jargon.

arcticbull 4y ago
I don't know how you'd better express 'port' than end-opening. After all it refers to the place where boats are loaded and unloaded. Honestly the semantic translation seems a far more apt term. I guess there's something like 港 but that's probably just more confusing.
- q7xvh97o2pDhNrh 4y ago
  > Honestly the semantic translation seems a far more apt term. That's interesting. For me, the port metaphor makes me think data port, which seems like a pretty apt parallel to the flow of goods at a shipping port. Different metaphors for different folks, I suppose.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Fair enough! It's interesting to think about the literal meaning of the keywords and industry jargon in English too.
iisan7 4y ago
Interestingly, many glosses using Chinese characters (not all, but many) were from Japan-- sometimes used phonetically (e.g. https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004438200_008 https://doi.org/10.1163/9789004438200_008), and sometimes used to translate concepts. Chinese imported many such loan words for technology from glosses that were made in Japan with kanji for words which had no existing equivalent in Chinese (https://www.jstor.org/stable/23754127 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23754127). But then Japan increasingly gave up new words in favor of transliteration, while Chinese continued to have this need. Chinese words that are phonetic approximations of foreign words are perhaps less common, but by no means rare. They're not all from English (e.g., 'grapes' is a transliteration from Indo-Iranian), and sometimes you have to look at the Cantonese pronunciation to hear the resemblance to English, and sometimes they're neatly hidden by a choice of word that fits well phonetically _and_ semantically.
yencabulator 4y ago
This has been true for Finnish also, more because of a stuffy language office that wanted to avoid unnatural influences. Computer = tietokone = knowledge machine Swap file = heittovaihtotiedosto = throw exchange record set (or some such). So yeah, Finnish programmers rarely used the official words.