3 ms·

Social media really has become more harmful than good for society. Privacy is just a new buzzword. https://archive.is/Y4RsD https://archive.is/Y4RsD

thricegreat 4y ago
it's not necessarily social media itself but the underlying structure and the ways it's misused that makes it harmful. it says more about american values than social media itself.
imwithstoopid 4y ago
[flagged]
- syzarian 4y ago
  China has been waging a cyber war with the U.S. for some time now. The conflict is already existing . China is not a media created adversary. They limit the types of U.S. businesses that can operate in China and it it’s not unreasonable that we respond in kind.
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    neither of those mean much with regards to tiktok specifically though.
  - proudeu 4y ago
    Looks like hatred instilling propaganda worked well on you
    - syzarian 4y ago
      It’s possible that I’m a victim of propaganda and it’s possible you are. The way to determine who is more likely to have fallen for propaganda is to compare respective beliefs against known facts. It is indisputable that Chinese hackers have stolen U.S. technology secrets and that China prevents/restricts who can operate there much more so than the U.S. Given this and China’s overt human rights violations on a grand scale in the western part of the country it’s clear that a conflict exists as a clash of both culture and national security.
      - imwithstoopid 4y ago
        [flagged]
        myko 4y ago
        > willingness to engage in a war the US and Taiwan might very well lose (badly) with Americans dying Based on Russia's performance in Ukraine and China's military might seemingly less than Russia's I doubt the US Navy has a tough time keeping China out of Taiwan, let alone the entire military might of the US
        imwithstoopid 4y ago
        I recommend looking up the Battle of the Chosin Resevoir....worst military defeat ever suffered by the US (worse than Bastogne imho), the Chinese didn't even have one gun per soldier...some didn't have boots...they DEMOLISHED the best equipped army in the world (and this was during Korea when the US military was the unquestioned top dog) and btw if you are going to go look at casualty counts, don't bother, its well understood that the Chinese lost ten men for every US soldier killed...they still won
        myko 4y ago
        Hard to definitively claim victory for either side in the battle you mention. The Chinese outnumbered the US 4 to 1 and still got blasted, the Chinese unit was out of commission for months following the battle while the US forces maintained unit integrity. In the years since the gulf between capabilities has grown, and especially seeing how Russia can't crush Ukraine using castoff NATO gear China will be wise to not poke the bear.
        HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        > guess what, in 2002 pretty much everyone was enthusiastically on board (as instructed!) mmm, no. In 2002 "everyone" pretty much agreed that invading Iraq was a bad idea. People only went along with it after it happened to "show support for the troops." Or have you forgotten the "Hate Bush, love the troops" bumper stickers?
  - janalsncm 4y ago
    This isn’t about actual harms or actual privacy risks. Facebook directly interfered in the 2016 election and no laws changed, no one went to prison, Mark Zuckerberg had a few cringe moments in front of Congress and then they pretty much forgot about him. So the message I’m getting is, no actual existential harm will come to a social media company that allows that to happen.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Facebook directly interfered in the 2016 election Is this a reference to Cambridge Analytica? Their electoral effects were mostly dismissed.
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        Mostly because they were exaggerated claims from Cambridge Analytica's own marketing material.
    - SllX 4y ago
      That’s because you cannot lay the result of the 2016 election at Facebook’s doorstep. Functionally they were used for five things: 1. Political advertising, which is what all campaigns engage in. 2. Discussions of the election by our own citizens, sometimes critical, more often an echo chamber or virtual throat stabbing contest. 3. News about the election which is free name recognition for all of the candidates the media considers worth talking about. 4. Market research by the campaigns. 5. A platform for foreign propaganda including psy-ops, which is bad and should be addressed, but not even close to bad enough to effect the outcome of an election as much as many might want to think that it did. You can’t really pin the 2016 election on Facebook specifically since any information on there competes with any information not from there and there was a lot more not-Facebook information involved in that election, but Facebook by that point made for a nice scapegoat that nobody has any real sympathy for. Remember too that it was real Americans that actually filled in their ballots that decided the election for every single candidate on the list.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - Avshalom 4y ago
      well I mean we're doing it to them too. it's not paranoid to assume large countries are engaged in just-barely-sub-causus-belli levels of shit against each other. But that doesn't make trying to ban or force the sale of tiktok anything more than a depressing/transparent sinophobic propoganda exercise.
    - syzarian 4y ago
      It’s not paranoia to think that China and the U.S. are engaged in a cyber conflict. For quite some time China has engaged in cyber warfare to steal American technological secrets and to spy on the U.S. We spy on them. Both nations are adversaries of each other and it’s not paranoia to recognize the blatantly obvious.
  - imwithstoopid 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - syzarian 4y ago
      I don’t live in the world of extremes that you do. There is room for other emotions between hate and love. In arrogance neo-liberals thought China embracing market reforms and “free” trade would liberalize/weaken the CCP. It did not work. We have long passed the point whereby China can be viewed as anything other than an adversary. China has engaged in state sponsored hacking and theft of American technological secrets and in a cyber war with the U.S. It’s not a conventional war.
- Atlas22 4y ago
  Do you believe the same for the US involvment in the ukraine conflict? The wars in the middle east? Vietnam? Korea? and so on? If not, what differences made you arrive at a different conclusion? To be clear I'm not implying you are wrong in terms of a conflict is being setup with China, just curious if your criticism is consistently applied. Many if not most news outlets are saying exactly what you are, but only make this distinction for China.
  - imwithstoopid 4y ago
    I'm more than happy to go through that list, but I suspect I will be downvoted anyway for merely explaining my own beliefs (which is what you are asking for) - Ukraine - a contrived proxy war and we are very generously and bravely assisting in the avoidable deaths of as many Ukrainians as possible. I'll go even further - neoliberal support in the US is comes from this notion that Trump and Putin are penpals, so if we punch Putin, its like punching Trump - Middle East Wars - worst geopolitical decision since ww2, probably ruined the US forever - Vietnam - a massive mistake...and I mean MISTAKE. this was not evil on the US part, but a legit misunderstanding. We mistook a civil war for a Red Wave - Korea - neutral...but it was the last time we faced off against China militarily and although we massively outgunned them, they probably delivered the single worst military defeat in US history (Chosin Resevoir). By any rational assessment we should have demolished the Chinese, instead they demolished us.
    - Atlas22 4y ago
      Thank you for explaining, I certainly wont downvote (not that I know how to anyways). Sorry in advance if you get nuked just for answering my question. Those are certainly opinions that seem consistent to me and are not just the usual parroting of <choose a media outlet> that seems to be so prevalent now. You've restored my faith in the free thinking public just a little bit today, so thanks.
stevenjgarner 4y ago
LOL. Are you sure this arhive.is url is not in violation of copyright? - see "Judge Decides Against Internet Archive" [1] on HN today [2] [1] https://file770.com/judge-decides-against-internet-archive/ https://file770.com/judge-decides-against-internet-archive/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35297117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35297117

thricegreat 4y ago

it's not necessarily social media itself but the underlying structure and the ways it's misused that makes it harmful. it says more about american values than social media itself.

imwithstoopid 4y ago

[flagged]

syzarian 4y ago
China has been waging a cyber war with the U.S. for some time now. The conflict is already existing . China is not a media created adversary. They limit the types of U.S. businesses that can operate in China and it it’s not unreasonable that we respond in kind.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  neither of those mean much with regards to tiktok specifically though.
- proudeu 4y ago
  Looks like hatred instilling propaganda worked well on you
  - syzarian 4y ago
    It’s possible that I’m a victim of propaganda and it’s possible you are. The way to determine who is more likely to have fallen for propaganda is to compare respective beliefs against known facts. It is indisputable that Chinese hackers have stolen U.S. technology secrets and that China prevents/restricts who can operate there much more so than the U.S. Given this and China’s overt human rights violations on a grand scale in the western part of the country it’s clear that a conflict exists as a clash of both culture and national security.
    - imwithstoopid 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - myko 4y ago
        > willingness to engage in a war the US and Taiwan might very well lose (badly) with Americans dying Based on Russia's performance in Ukraine and China's military might seemingly less than Russia's I doubt the US Navy has a tough time keeping China out of Taiwan, let alone the entire military might of the US
        imwithstoopid 4y ago
        I recommend looking up the Battle of the Chosin Resevoir....worst military defeat ever suffered by the US (worse than Bastogne imho), the Chinese didn't even have one gun per soldier...some didn't have boots...they DEMOLISHED the best equipped army in the world (and this was during Korea when the US military was the unquestioned top dog) and btw if you are going to go look at casualty counts, don't bother, its well understood that the Chinese lost ten men for every US soldier killed...they still won
        myko 4y ago
        Hard to definitively claim victory for either side in the battle you mention. The Chinese outnumbered the US 4 to 1 and still got blasted, the Chinese unit was out of commission for months following the battle while the US forces maintained unit integrity. In the years since the gulf between capabilities has grown, and especially seeing how Russia can't crush Ukraine using castoff NATO gear China will be wise to not poke the bear.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        > guess what, in 2002 pretty much everyone was enthusiastically on board (as instructed!) mmm, no. In 2002 "everyone" pretty much agreed that invading Iraq was a bad idea. People only went along with it after it happened to "show support for the troops." Or have you forgotten the "Hate Bush, love the troops" bumper stickers?
- janalsncm 4y ago
  This isn’t about actual harms or actual privacy risks. Facebook directly interfered in the 2016 election and no laws changed, no one went to prison, Mark Zuckerberg had a few cringe moments in front of Congress and then they pretty much forgot about him. So the message I’m getting is, no actual existential harm will come to a social media company that allows that to happen.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Facebook directly interfered in the 2016 election Is this a reference to Cambridge Analytica? Their electoral effects were mostly dismissed.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Mostly because they were exaggerated claims from Cambridge Analytica's own marketing material.
  - SllX 4y ago
    That’s because you cannot lay the result of the 2016 election at Facebook’s doorstep. Functionally they were used for five things: 1. Political advertising, which is what all campaigns engage in. 2. Discussions of the election by our own citizens, sometimes critical, more often an echo chamber or virtual throat stabbing contest. 3. News about the election which is free name recognition for all of the candidates the media considers worth talking about. 4. Market research by the campaigns. 5. A platform for foreign propaganda including psy-ops, which is bad and should be addressed, but not even close to bad enough to effect the outcome of an election as much as many might want to think that it did. You can’t really pin the 2016 election on Facebook specifically since any information on there competes with any information not from there and there was a lot more not-Facebook information involved in that election, but Facebook by that point made for a nice scapegoat that nobody has any real sympathy for. Remember too that it was real Americans that actually filled in their ballots that decided the election for every single candidate on the list.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    well I mean we're doing it to them too. it's not paranoid to assume large countries are engaged in just-barely-sub-causus-belli levels of shit against each other. But that doesn't make trying to ban or force the sale of tiktok anything more than a depressing/transparent sinophobic propoganda exercise.
  - syzarian 4y ago
    It’s not paranoia to think that China and the U.S. are engaged in a cyber conflict. For quite some time China has engaged in cyber warfare to steal American technological secrets and to spy on the U.S. We spy on them. Both nations are adversaries of each other and it’s not paranoia to recognize the blatantly obvious.
- imwithstoopid 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - syzarian 4y ago
    I don’t live in the world of extremes that you do. There is room for other emotions between hate and love. In arrogance neo-liberals thought China embracing market reforms and “free” trade would liberalize/weaken the CCP. It did not work. We have long passed the point whereby China can be viewed as anything other than an adversary. China has engaged in state sponsored hacking and theft of American technological secrets and in a cyber war with the U.S. It’s not a conventional war.
Atlas22 4y ago
Do you believe the same for the US involvment in the ukraine conflict? The wars in the middle east? Vietnam? Korea? and so on? If not, what differences made you arrive at a different conclusion? To be clear I'm not implying you are wrong in terms of a conflict is being setup with China, just curious if your criticism is consistently applied. Many if not most news outlets are saying exactly what you are, but only make this distinction for China.
- imwithstoopid 4y ago
  I'm more than happy to go through that list, but I suspect I will be downvoted anyway for merely explaining my own beliefs (which is what you are asking for) - Ukraine - a contrived proxy war and we are very generously and bravely assisting in the avoidable deaths of as many Ukrainians as possible. I'll go even further - neoliberal support in the US is comes from this notion that Trump and Putin are penpals, so if we punch Putin, its like punching Trump - Middle East Wars - worst geopolitical decision since ww2, probably ruined the US forever - Vietnam - a massive mistake...and I mean MISTAKE. this was not evil on the US part, but a legit misunderstanding. We mistook a civil war for a Red Wave - Korea - neutral...but it was the last time we faced off against China militarily and although we massively outgunned them, they probably delivered the single worst military defeat in US history (Chosin Resevoir). By any rational assessment we should have demolished the Chinese, instead they demolished us.
  - Atlas22 4y ago
    Thank you for explaining, I certainly wont downvote (not that I know how to anyways). Sorry in advance if you get nuked just for answering my question. Those are certainly opinions that seem consistent to me and are not just the usual parroting of <choose a media outlet> that seems to be so prevalent now. You've restored my faith in the free thinking public just a little bit today, so thanks.

stevenjgarner 4y ago

LOL. Are you sure this arhive.is url is not in violation of copyright? - see "Judge Decides Against Internet Archive" [1] on HN today [2] [1] https://file770.com/judge-decides-against-internet-archive/ https://file770.com/judge-decides-against-internet-archive/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35297117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35297117