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> a teacher's first priority ought to be to satisfying their students' goals I'd like to challenge this assertion. I'd argue that the teacher's goal is to impr

> a teacher's first priority ought to be to satisfying their students' goals I'd like to challenge this assertion. I'd argue that the teacher's goal is to improve the goals students come up with, sometimes even helping them abandon unproductive goals & pick more appropriate goals. For example, if you let students choose for themselves what sort of mathematics they want to do, I am pretty sure that they're going to pick easy problems (in general; there will be some exceptions). Hence, the teacher's task is to expand the vision for the student, to help them target bigger problems, more difficult ones and to expand their capabilities beyond what they envisioned for themselves. If a teacher cannot challenge the student to envision something bigger for themselves and the world, in my worldview, the teacher hasn't done a good job.

logicalmonster 4y ago
Aren't you approaching this thinking from a likely (far) wealthier perspective? There's people in very bad living conditions trying to learn computers to dramatically improve a shitty life. I'm not saying learning computer science theory isn't great, but the details of these potential students lives should be considered and are important for what their goal in trying to learn. Would you go and tell a student this? ------------------------- I'm sorry you have heaps of rats and cockroaches crawling in your shack my student. I'm sorry you don't have working electricity. I'm sorry your brother is sick because he can't afford extra medical treatments he needs to fix his condition. What's that? Your main goal is to start out on an entry-level Java job so you can help your family and want to be guided on the right path for that? Oh, no. No, no, no. That's NOT appropriate. We need to teach you computer science theory first. If your life spirals out of control in the meantime, at least you'll know it was for an appropriate cause.
- atomicnature 4y ago
  First of all, I myself come from a non affluent background, and the students I'm working with are also from a pretty economially/socially disadvantaged background. The factor doesn't change the teacher's job. The teacher's job is, if you're in grade 5, to take you to grade 6. Sometimes you as a student may dislike the process, since it involves learning stuff you think is not useful, but the teacher ought to know what's profitable to learn. The teacher is in a better position to take the student out of the poverty, than the student themselves. If they don't know what the student needs to learn, then the teacher fails the student. That's my point. Essentially, the teacher's job is not to bend to student requests on what stuff they're to learn. If the teacher is there to "satisfy" the student's goals alone, then there's no hope for civilisation or for the students themselves.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    If OP were asking about a public school role, I'd say that your reasoning would be a little more understandable. Maybe we can agree to disagree, but I think considering the needs of the students to be more important from this description. It seems like the students are coming to him outside of their normal school time to try and learn. So they might have a specific goal that makes sense for them. And I don't know these students life details, but since OP mentioned village, it's conceivable their current biggest problem in life is why they're there in the first place: learning enough practical stuff to get a job. I love computer science stuff too, but that can't matter as much to me if I was starving and insecure in my life.
    - atomicnature 4y ago
      > If OP were asking about a public school role, I'd say that your reasoning would be a little more understandable. A teacher is a teacher, whether in public school role, or your local swimming coach or gym trainer. The job of a teacher is to expand your capabilities, to help you see a more capable you and help you get there, one step at a time. The major hurdle is that humans (regardless of economic background) have "bad brains" and many times the learners have horrible expectations about what education is meant to be. There is an effort to build an image for education as a comfortable journey. That's a dangerous image for civilization, and for people of all economic classes. Education is the great equaliser. Remember, when euclid said "There is no royal road to geometry", it was to an emperor! The emperor had his own goals ("royal road to learning"), but such a thing doesn't exist, whether in public schools, or physical exercise, or any other capability such as music/painting. A real teacher will remove the misconception (like Euclid did with the emperor). False salesmen will "teach" you geometry in 3 easy steps :)

logicalmonster 4y ago

Aren't you approaching this thinking from a likely (far) wealthier perspective? There's people in very bad living conditions trying to learn computers to dramatically improve a shitty life. I'm not saying learning computer science theory isn't great, but the details of these potential students lives should be considered and are important for what their goal in trying to learn. Would you go and tell a student this? ------------------------- I'm sorry you have heaps of rats and cockroaches crawling in your shack my student. I'm sorry you don't have working electricity. I'm sorry your brother is sick because he can't afford extra medical treatments he needs to fix his condition. What's that? Your main goal is to start out on an entry-level Java job so you can help your family and want to be guided on the right path for that? Oh, no. No, no, no. That's NOT appropriate. We need to teach you computer science theory first. If your life spirals out of control in the meantime, at least you'll know it was for an appropriate cause.

atomicnature 4y ago
First of all, I myself come from a non affluent background, and the students I'm working with are also from a pretty economially/socially disadvantaged background. The factor doesn't change the teacher's job. The teacher's job is, if you're in grade 5, to take you to grade 6. Sometimes you as a student may dislike the process, since it involves learning stuff you think is not useful, but the teacher ought to know what's profitable to learn. The teacher is in a better position to take the student out of the poverty, than the student themselves. If they don't know what the student needs to learn, then the teacher fails the student. That's my point. Essentially, the teacher's job is not to bend to student requests on what stuff they're to learn. If the teacher is there to "satisfy" the student's goals alone, then there's no hope for civilisation or for the students themselves.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  If OP were asking about a public school role, I'd say that your reasoning would be a little more understandable. Maybe we can agree to disagree, but I think considering the needs of the students to be more important from this description. It seems like the students are coming to him outside of their normal school time to try and learn. So they might have a specific goal that makes sense for them. And I don't know these students life details, but since OP mentioned village, it's conceivable their current biggest problem in life is why they're there in the first place: learning enough practical stuff to get a job. I love computer science stuff too, but that can't matter as much to me if I was starving and insecure in my life.
  - atomicnature 4y ago
    > If OP were asking about a public school role, I'd say that your reasoning would be a little more understandable. A teacher is a teacher, whether in public school role, or your local swimming coach or gym trainer. The job of a teacher is to expand your capabilities, to help you see a more capable you and help you get there, one step at a time. The major hurdle is that humans (regardless of economic background) have "bad brains" and many times the learners have horrible expectations about what education is meant to be. There is an effort to build an image for education as a comfortable journey. That's a dangerous image for civilization, and for people of all economic classes. Education is the great equaliser. Remember, when euclid said "There is no royal road to geometry", it was to an emperor! The emperor had his own goals ("royal road to learning"), but such a thing doesn't exist, whether in public schools, or physical exercise, or any other capability such as music/painting. A real teacher will remove the misconception (like Euclid did with the emperor). False salesmen will "teach" you geometry in 3 easy steps :)