6 ms·

I’m happy to answer questions that folks have on this. There was also an earlier HN thread on our full launch event where we announced 13th Gen Intel Core and

by nrp 4y ago

I’m happy to answer questions that folks have on this. There was also an earlier HN thread on our full launch event where we announced 13th Gen Intel Core and AMD Ryzen 7040 Series versions of the Framework Laptop 13, along with a bunch of other stuff: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35277660 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35277660

greggsy 4y ago
An upgradeable GPU is a game changer for laptops. Have you settled on an existing standard like MXM, or a new one?
- nrp 4y ago
  We've developed a new interface and released it publicly on GitHub: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionBay https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionBay
2020aj 4y ago
Can you share the screen resolution? I own the 13 but the PPI on that screen makes fractional scaling necessary for me (which doesn't always behave well on Linux/Wayland). I'm wondering if I'll be able to comfortably use integer scaling with the 16. And if you can answer... are any screen replacements with different resolutions in play for the 13 chassis?
- nrp 4y ago
  We'll be sharing full specifications on the Framework Laptop 16 later this Spring when we open pre-orders. What we have today is an early developer preview around the new module systems.
CarVac 4y ago
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/392387047740014624/1088592739060428971/Screenshot_20230323_183508.png https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/392387047740014624/... Is this how the GPU module cooling will work? (a poor mouse drawing of my best guess based on the pictures)
- nrp 4y ago
  Yep, that is roughly right. We had some pictures of the the top side of the Expansion Bay Modules in the presentation yesterday.
fsflover 4y ago
Did you adopt the Purism's naming approach, with numbers used for screen size instead of versions? They have a nice philosophy behind it by the way: https://puri.sm/posts/foreshadowing-why-the-purism-logo-is-a-rectangle/ https://puri.sm/posts/foreshadowing-why-the-purism-logo-is-a....
vwoolf 4y ago
What's going on w/ sleep/wake and suspend, particularly on Linux? From what I understand, the previous problems were due to Intel's bizarre behavior around s3 sleep. Has AMD introduced Apple-like sleep/wake/suspend behavior?
- nrp 4y ago
  S3 is unfortunately pretty much dead all-around, but S0ix continues to improve. We have firmware optimizations going in on both the system side and the Expansion Card side to help reduce bad retimer behavior around suspend though which improves power draw.
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    I think we talked about that before, but lmk if you need help with S0. It takes some work, but it's possible to get to less than 0.5%/battery/hour, a fair benchmark as a battery reduced by >=5% after 10h of sleep is generally acceptable
    - tenacious_tuna 4y ago
      holy crap, I'd love usage numbers that low. I'm running PopOS on a thinkpad, not on a framework, but S0 has been a long fight for me and I haven't felt like I've made much progress. Do you have links to useful resources??
      - csdvrx 4y ago
        I have more experience with thinkpads, so yes ofc! First please read my windows guide on csdvrx.github.io: it's very generic and should get you a baseline in Windows Then get at least a week worth of measurements over long periods of sleep (like at night, reboot on windows) as a baseline Then tell me how it compares to what you get on Linux after enabling everythig with powertop tunables and we'll work from there, as it'll be more precise than powertop. Just send that by email at my outlook address. Includes the discharge line plot from Windows sleepstudy you find the more relevant, and a dmesg from linux FYI, without wifi, on my thinkpad recently installed to Arch I measure 3.6W in powertop but I think it needs a recalibration as I measure 2W on a USBC power meter when idling with wifi enabled and a full wayland desktop (edge, etc)
causi 4y ago
Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?
- sanitycheck 4y ago
  It's a complete bloody mystery and I thought the same thing when I saw their other laptops. I'm sure their target audience uses the cursor keys more than almost every other key, and they've made them those horrible tiny nubs. You could literally fit all four of them into the footprint of that right shift key, the right shift key that I have never even once pressed in 30 years of computing. No matter what else they do, the arrow keys tell me they are fools who should not be trusted! (Hyperbole, sure, but only a little.)
  - floren 4y ago
    I use the arrow keys occasionally, but wouldn't miss them too much if they disappeared. However, because I know how to type, I use the right shift key constantly. Of all the keys to fuss about...
  - hojjat12000 4y ago
    It's a qmk keyboard, you can literally map CapsLock+H/J/K/L to be your arrow keys!
  - causi 4y ago
    Yeah there's quite a bit of disconnect between who Framework imagines their market is and who I think gets excited at the phrase "modular laptop". We care about things like real non-chiclet keyboards, full size arrow keys, mouse buttons. What is the point in buying a Framework when the laptop I already own has as much connectivity as a Framework laptop's entire selection of modules, all at the same time? Framework should've offered things you can't get anywhere else, like a module that's just four USB 2.0 ports in a stack, or a module that's actually a fold-out bluetooth mouse.
    - jocaal 4y ago
tomberek 4y ago
I’ve loved my Framework so far and the excellent customer service. Is there still enough attention put into ensuring Linux compat? I’m especially interested in providing NixOS support as the Framework has been popular in that community.
- nrp 4y ago
  Definitely. We have a dedicated member of the CX team focused on Linux support, along with a support agent who is also dedicated to it. Most of our lead engineers also use/dogfood Linux on their Framework Laptops daily. Mostly Ubuntu, but I believe one of our team members does use NixOS as their default.
  - tomberek 4y ago
    Excellent. Any custom modifications can go here: https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framewor... to make it easier to collaborate and distribute.
navigate8310 4y ago
Do you have plans to launch the 16 in India?
KeyBoardG 4y ago
How crumb tight are the lines on the deck with the different panels on the 16? Are they held only by magnets, such that lateral pressure could cause them to move?
- nrp 4y ago
  We have alignment pins and notches for stability in addition to magnets for holding force on the top row. The bottom row actually latches into place on rails.
  - KeyBoardG 4y ago
    Awesome. Thanks!!
aconsult1 4y ago
I have to say that improving the battery by 11% is not nearly enough. I have a Framework Intel 12th Gen running Mint and I can't use it for more than 3h without having to plug it in. I've followed all instructions on your forums but it's just horrible! Don't get me wrong, I love my laptop, but I hate the battery performance. My wife has a MacBook Air which only requires charging every 3-4 says. I wish you spent more effort in fixing it at the software level, whatever it takes.
smileybarry 4y ago
Would you consider releasing a graphics module “riser”? Since PCIe-is-PCIe, I would love the option to just connect a desktop GPU directly (no eGPU TB chip involved), even though I have to bring my own PSU. I currently use a TB3 eGPU case and the massive overhead and OEM bugs are slowly making that real PCIe link worth it.
depressedpanda 4y ago
When will Framework be available in the Nordic countries?
yumraj 4y ago
what is/are the screen type (matte/glossy) and resolution option(s) for the 16"?
codewiz 4y ago
Any plans to switch to Coreboot or provide Coreboot as an option? Otherwise, could flash programming be unlocked to facilitate flashing third-party firmware?
- csdvrx 4y ago
  TBH that would be an instant buy from me
  - codewiz 4y ago
    I've been using a System76 Lemur Pro for 6 months, and I'm very happy with it: https://system76.com/laptops/lemur https://system76.com/laptops/lemur I'd switch to a Framework laptop for the hardware configurability, but not if it means losing Coreboot.
addcommitpush 4y ago
Do you plan to make smaller laptops, like 11” or so?
chadash 4y ago
I don't have a question, but I am a Framework 12th gen board owner and I just want to say what a cool company Framework is. For those who haven't seen a framework in real life before, I cannot emphasize enough how easy this thing is to put together or fix. Opening my computer up to replace my hard drive would take maybe 5 minutes at a relaxed pace. I bet it can be done in 60 seconds by someone who is fast at it. That's because of very thoughtful design and really thinking through the ergonomics of opening the computer up. There are little design choices like using case screws that don't come out all the way, so you don't end up spending 5 minutes replacing the SSD and 10 minutes looking for a 2mm screw that dropped on the floor near your desk. The layout of components on the inside is also very elegant. And then when you close the computer back up, it aligns itself with magnets, which just feels great; it's very satisfying, kind of like the magsafe charger design on a macbook. I really appreciate the design of this machine. You've gotten this to a point where anyone who can assemble a piece of Ikea furniture can probably replace their laptop speakers or trackpad. This is no small feat. And more importantly, I love what you are doing for the industry overall. The idea that I can swap out my display from glossy to matte on a laptop that I've already owned for a while for less than $200 is pretty amazing. I wish you a lot of success.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by nrp 4y ago

greggsy 4y ago

An upgradeable GPU is a game changer for laptops. Have you settled on an existing standard like MXM, or a new one?

nrp 4y ago
We've developed a new interface and released it publicly on GitHub: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionBay https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionBay

2020aj 4y ago

Can you share the screen resolution? I own the 13 but the PPI on that screen makes fractional scaling necessary for me (which doesn't always behave well on Linux/Wayland). I'm wondering if I'll be able to comfortably use integer scaling with the 16. And if you can answer... are any screen replacements with different resolutions in play for the 13 chassis?

nrp 4y ago
We'll be sharing full specifications on the Framework Laptop 16 later this Spring when we open pre-orders. What we have today is an early developer preview around the new module systems.

CarVac 4y ago

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/392387047740014624/1088592739060428971/Screenshot_20230323_183508.png https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/392387047740014624/... Is this how the GPU module cooling will work? (a poor mouse drawing of my best guess based on the pictures)

nrp 4y ago
Yep, that is roughly right. We had some pictures of the the top side of the Expansion Bay Modules in the presentation yesterday.

fsflover 4y ago

Did you adopt the Purism's naming approach, with numbers used for screen size instead of versions? They have a nice philosophy behind it by the way: https://puri.sm/posts/foreshadowing-why-the-purism-logo-is-a-rectangle/ https://puri.sm/posts/foreshadowing-why-the-purism-logo-is-a....

vwoolf 4y ago

What's going on w/ sleep/wake and suspend, particularly on Linux? From what I understand, the previous problems were due to Intel's bizarre behavior around s3 sleep. Has AMD introduced Apple-like sleep/wake/suspend behavior?

nrp 4y ago
S3 is unfortunately pretty much dead all-around, but S0ix continues to improve. We have firmware optimizations going in on both the system side and the Expansion Card side to help reduce bad retimer behavior around suspend though which improves power draw.
- csdvrx 4y ago
  I think we talked about that before, but lmk if you need help with S0. It takes some work, but it's possible to get to less than 0.5%/battery/hour, a fair benchmark as a battery reduced by >=5% after 10h of sleep is generally acceptable
  - tenacious_tuna 4y ago
    holy crap, I'd love usage numbers that low. I'm running PopOS on a thinkpad, not on a framework, but S0 has been a long fight for me and I haven't felt like I've made much progress. Do you have links to useful resources??
    - csdvrx 4y ago
      I have more experience with thinkpads, so yes ofc! First please read my windows guide on csdvrx.github.io: it's very generic and should get you a baseline in Windows Then get at least a week worth of measurements over long periods of sleep (like at night, reboot on windows) as a baseline Then tell me how it compares to what you get on Linux after enabling everythig with powertop tunables and we'll work from there, as it'll be more precise than powertop. Just send that by email at my outlook address. Includes the discharge line plot from Windows sleepstudy you find the more relevant, and a dmesg from linux FYI, without wifi, on my thinkpad recently installed to Arch I measure 3.6W in powertop but I think it needs a recalibration as I measure 2W on a USBC power meter when idling with wifi enabled and a full wayland desktop (edge, etc)

causi 4y ago

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

sanitycheck 4y ago
It's a complete bloody mystery and I thought the same thing when I saw their other laptops. I'm sure their target audience uses the cursor keys more than almost every other key, and they've made them those horrible tiny nubs. You could literally fit all four of them into the footprint of that right shift key, the right shift key that I have never even once pressed in 30 years of computing. No matter what else they do, the arrow keys tell me they are fools who should not be trusted! (Hyperbole, sure, but only a little.)
- floren 4y ago
  I use the arrow keys occasionally, but wouldn't miss them too much if they disappeared. However, because I know how to type, I use the right shift key constantly. Of all the keys to fuss about...
- hojjat12000 4y ago
  It's a qmk keyboard, you can literally map CapsLock+H/J/K/L to be your arrow keys!
- causi 4y ago
  Yeah there's quite a bit of disconnect between who Framework imagines their market is and who I think gets excited at the phrase "modular laptop". We care about things like real non-chiclet keyboards, full size arrow keys, mouse buttons. What is the point in buying a Framework when the laptop I already own has as much connectivity as a Framework laptop's entire selection of modules, all at the same time? Framework should've offered things you can't get anywhere else, like a module that's just four USB 2.0 ports in a stack, or a module that's actually a fold-out bluetooth mouse.
  - jocaal 4y ago

tomberek 4y ago

I’ve loved my Framework so far and the excellent customer service. Is there still enough attention put into ensuring Linux compat? I’m especially interested in providing NixOS support as the Framework has been popular in that community.

nrp 4y ago
Definitely. We have a dedicated member of the CX team focused on Linux support, along with a support agent who is also dedicated to it. Most of our lead engineers also use/dogfood Linux on their Framework Laptops daily. Mostly Ubuntu, but I believe one of our team members does use NixOS as their default.
- tomberek 4y ago
  Excellent. Any custom modifications can go here: https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framework https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/tree/master/framewor... to make it easier to collaborate and distribute.

navigate8310 4y ago

Do you have plans to launch the 16 in India?

KeyBoardG 4y ago

How crumb tight are the lines on the deck with the different panels on the 16? Are they held only by magnets, such that lateral pressure could cause them to move?

nrp 4y ago
We have alignment pins and notches for stability in addition to magnets for holding force on the top row. The bottom row actually latches into place on rails.
- KeyBoardG 4y ago
  Awesome. Thanks!!

aconsult1 4y ago

I have to say that improving the battery by 11% is not nearly enough. I have a Framework Intel 12th Gen running Mint and I can't use it for more than 3h without having to plug it in. I've followed all instructions on your forums but it's just horrible! Don't get me wrong, I love my laptop, but I hate the battery performance. My wife has a MacBook Air which only requires charging every 3-4 says. I wish you spent more effort in fixing it at the software level, whatever it takes.

smileybarry 4y ago

Would you consider releasing a graphics module “riser”? Since PCIe-is-PCIe, I would love the option to just connect a desktop GPU directly (no eGPU TB chip involved), even though I have to bring my own PSU. I currently use a TB3 eGPU case and the massive overhead and OEM bugs are slowly making that real PCIe link worth it.

depressedpanda 4y ago

When will Framework be available in the Nordic countries?

yumraj 4y ago

what is/are the screen type (matte/glossy) and resolution option(s) for the 16"?

codewiz 4y ago

Any plans to switch to Coreboot or provide Coreboot as an option? Otherwise, could flash programming be unlocked to facilitate flashing third-party firmware?

csdvrx 4y ago
TBH that would be an instant buy from me
- codewiz 4y ago
  I've been using a System76 Lemur Pro for 6 months, and I'm very happy with it: https://system76.com/laptops/lemur https://system76.com/laptops/lemur I'd switch to a Framework laptop for the hardware configurability, but not if it means losing Coreboot.

addcommitpush 4y ago

Do you plan to make smaller laptops, like 11” or so?

chadash 4y ago

I don't have a question, but I am a Framework 12th gen board owner and I just want to say what a cool company Framework is. For those who haven't seen a framework in real life before, I cannot emphasize enough how easy this thing is to put together or fix. Opening my computer up to replace my hard drive would take maybe 5 minutes at a relaxed pace. I bet it can be done in 60 seconds by someone who is fast at it. That's because of very thoughtful design and really thinking through the ergonomics of opening the computer up. There are little design choices like using case screws that don't come out all the way, so you don't end up spending 5 minutes replacing the SSD and 10 minutes looking for a 2mm screw that dropped on the floor near your desk. The layout of components on the inside is also very elegant. And then when you close the computer back up, it aligns itself with magnets, which just feels great; it's very satisfying, kind of like the magsafe charger design on a macbook. I really appreciate the design of this machine. You've gotten this to a point where anyone who can assemble a piece of Ikea furniture can probably replace their laptop speakers or trackpad. This is no small feat. And more importantly, I love what you are doing for the industry overall. The idea that I can swap out my display from glossy to matte on a laptop that I've already owned for a while for less than $200 is pretty amazing. I wish you a lot of success.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]