7 ms·

I honestly can't believe there are so many consultants.

by arberx 4y ago

DarkNova6 4y ago
While Accenture is a consultancy, it has massive amounts of IT developers around the world.
papruapap 4y ago
more like cheap contractors.
- myth_drannon 4y ago
  Some dev work is billed for 300$-400$/hour.
  - game_the0ry 4y ago
    And those devs, who are usually offshore, get paid $30-40/hr, while Accenture gets the difference.
    - deepzn 4y ago
      even less..
    - dysoco 4y ago
      Maybe for Sr devs, Jrs probably get around $5/hr in my country from Accenture. p.s. And many times, companies like Accenture will tell you they have a team of 5 Sr developers working on it when it's actually 1 Sr and 4 Jrs.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACN/accenture/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACN/accenture/prof... Their 10% to 12% profit margin indicates they either have massive overhead, or more likely, they do not actually collect on that “$300 to $400 per hour” they charge.
      - shagie 4y ago
        Their revenue per employee shows an interesting history including what would now be considered over hiring recently... but there's also a distinct downward trend for the revenue per employee. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=accenture+revenue+per+employee+since+2012+vs+number+of+employees https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=accenture+revenue+per+e...
      - myth_drannon 4y ago
        I don't know on average how much each consultant sits on a bench. Probably 70% are billable hours, otherwise they would fire him/her.
- osrec 4y ago
  They ain't cheap.
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    Considering the quality, definitely not.
    - alain67 4y ago
      Internal guys are not always the best also. A bit of "retenue" would be nice.
      - manuelabeledo 4y ago
        My experience with Accenture over the years, which may or may not be representative of the IT services branch, is that they hire for cheap at their centers in India, and bill 50x of what they pay the workers. I have nothing against them. I understand that Accenture goes for the lowest pay possible. Quality is delivered accordingly. Smart and experienced engineers in places like India have better things to do than working for Accenture. It is still fascinating to see how big companies with supposedly smart people, keep overpaying for these IT mills. There is not a single one I have interacted with (Atos, Accenture, Tata), that hasn't provided a subpar service for a sky high fee.
        game_the0ry 4y ago
        > It is still fascinating to see how big companies with supposedly smart people, keep overpaying for these IT mills. Blame management for this one - they still think that tech is an operational cost overhead, not a strategic long-term interest, for their companies, which is why a company like hertz paid a company like accenture $32 million for a site that was never delivered.
        datavirtue 4y ago
        People cite these big numbers but the typical Tata-like reality is $70-80 an hour billed with $40-50 paid to the developer. The guy you have to wake up three or four times a day. This is much lower than the local consultancies which need at least $125 an hour with $80-90 going to the dev. I have seen the same contractor kept around for 12 years, slapped down upon applying for FTE after ten years (GE). They would rather pay more than allow them into the FTE ranks--unless their pedigree fits. Humiliating. I used to hire and manage contractors as an FTE and was a contractor initially at GE. As such, I participated in the yearly consultancy hourly negotiations and onboarding with HR. Had a spreadsheet with all of the consultants and their hourly rates for our division. When I hired I would only consider the $125 and up candidates. I work at a small consultancy now where I'm a partner. We don't do any business with GE but we do contract with other large companies willing to pay our rates. And they do so happily, even through pandemics and downturns. Our consultants keep the majority of the billing rate--save for expenses like office space and other business expenses and the "sales team" (some of which also bill). FTEs overall are the lowest paid. Even the "managers." Few evaluate the deal because they reason that they get severance or will not be laid off as readily. Ignoring the fact that the contractor already built in the severance and doesn't want to go to the Christmas party.
manuelabeledo 4y ago
Used to work at AT&T. They contract Accenture for dev teams across the whole company. I would say 19,000 is a drop in the bucket for them.
danpalmer 4y ago
Accenture do a lot of stuff. I've seen them do IT support functions for example – a whole load of boring leg-work stuff that could be automated, but might as well just be out-sourced to someone in a country with lower wages. I'm sure for every management/marketing consultant, there are 5 developers and 20 people doing various data entry or support tasks.
hackitup7 4y ago
These aren't all management consultants. There's a lot of outsourced call centers, somewhat low-skill workers, systems integrators, etc. The vast majority do "real work" as opposed to just producing slideware. That said it's almost impossible to run a 800000 person company without treating your employees a bit like a herd of sheep. However, it's an extremely effective business.

I honestly can't believe there are so many consultants.

by arberx 4y ago

I honestly can't believe there are so many consultants.

DarkNova6 4y ago

While Accenture is a consultancy, it has massive amounts of IT developers around the world.

papruapap 4y ago

more like cheap contractors.

myth_drannon 4y ago
Some dev work is billed for 300$-400$/hour.
- game_the0ry 4y ago
  And those devs, who are usually offshore, get paid $30-40/hr, while Accenture gets the difference.
  - deepzn 4y ago
    even less..
  - dysoco 4y ago
    Maybe for Sr devs, Jrs probably get around $5/hr in my country from Accenture. p.s. And many times, companies like Accenture will tell you they have a team of 5 Sr developers working on it when it's actually 1 Sr and 4 Jrs.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACN/accenture/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACN/accenture/prof... Their 10% to 12% profit margin indicates they either have massive overhead, or more likely, they do not actually collect on that “$300 to $400 per hour” they charge.
    - shagie 4y ago
      Their revenue per employee shows an interesting history including what would now be considered over hiring recently... but there's also a distinct downward trend for the revenue per employee. https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=accenture+revenue+per+employee+since+2012+vs+number+of+employees https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=accenture+revenue+per+e...
    - myth_drannon 4y ago
      I don't know on average how much each consultant sits on a bench. Probably 70% are billable hours, otherwise they would fire him/her.
osrec 4y ago
They ain't cheap.
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  Considering the quality, definitely not.
  - alain67 4y ago
    Internal guys are not always the best also. A bit of "retenue" would be nice.
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      My experience with Accenture over the years, which may or may not be representative of the IT services branch, is that they hire for cheap at their centers in India, and bill 50x of what they pay the workers. I have nothing against them. I understand that Accenture goes for the lowest pay possible. Quality is delivered accordingly. Smart and experienced engineers in places like India have better things to do than working for Accenture. It is still fascinating to see how big companies with supposedly smart people, keep overpaying for these IT mills. There is not a single one I have interacted with (Atos, Accenture, Tata), that hasn't provided a subpar service for a sky high fee.
      - game_the0ry 4y ago
        > It is still fascinating to see how big companies with supposedly smart people, keep overpaying for these IT mills. Blame management for this one - they still think that tech is an operational cost overhead, not a strategic long-term interest, for their companies, which is why a company like hertz paid a company like accenture $32 million for a site that was never delivered.
      - datavirtue 4y ago
        People cite these big numbers but the typical Tata-like reality is $70-80 an hour billed with $40-50 paid to the developer. The guy you have to wake up three or four times a day. This is much lower than the local consultancies which need at least $125 an hour with $80-90 going to the dev. I have seen the same contractor kept around for 12 years, slapped down upon applying for FTE after ten years (GE). They would rather pay more than allow them into the FTE ranks--unless their pedigree fits. Humiliating. I used to hire and manage contractors as an FTE and was a contractor initially at GE. As such, I participated in the yearly consultancy hourly negotiations and onboarding with HR. Had a spreadsheet with all of the consultants and their hourly rates for our division. When I hired I would only consider the $125 and up candidates. I work at a small consultancy now where I'm a partner. We don't do any business with GE but we do contract with other large companies willing to pay our rates. And they do so happily, even through pandemics and downturns. Our consultants keep the majority of the billing rate--save for expenses like office space and other business expenses and the "sales team" (some of which also bill). FTEs overall are the lowest paid. Even the "managers." Few evaluate the deal because they reason that they get severance or will not be laid off as readily. Ignoring the fact that the contractor already built in the severance and doesn't want to go to the Christmas party.

manuelabeledo 4y ago

Used to work at AT&T. They contract Accenture for dev teams across the whole company. I would say 19,000 is a drop in the bucket for them.

danpalmer 4y ago

Accenture do a lot of stuff. I've seen them do IT support functions for example – a whole load of boring leg-work stuff that could be automated, but might as well just be out-sourced to someone in a country with lower wages. I'm sure for every management/marketing consultant, there are 5 developers and 20 people doing various data entry or support tasks.

hackitup7 4y ago

These aren't all management consultants. There's a lot of outsourced call centers, somewhat low-skill workers, systems integrators, etc. The vast majority do "real work" as opposed to just producing slideware. That said it's almost impossible to run a 800000 person company without treating your employees a bit like a herd of sheep. However, it's an extremely effective business.