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One question I consider: is a cop that never violates anyone’s civil rights, but also does nothing when their coworkers do, considered a good cop? For instance

One question I consider: is a cop that never violates anyone’s civil rights, but also does nothing when their coworkers do, considered a good cop? For instance, are there any good cops in Louisville? Any good state cops in Kentucky? Seems to me they would’ve done something, anything, about the Breonna Taylor case instead of waiting for the feds to come in. There were even active coverups, Kentucky’s Attorney General went to great lengths to push the idea that the entire thing was perfectly legal! Edit: and maybe the federal charges are to some extent the result of an actual good cop in KY blowing a whistle, hopefully we’ll know someday

hooverd 4y ago
There are bad cops, and cops who choose to look away, and I'm sure these are all perfectly wonderful people off the clock, but my example of a good cop is Adrian Schoolcraft and look what they did to him.
anonymousiam 4y ago
It depends on what a cop does when he sees misconduct by others. Christopher Dorner reported misconduct, but was ostracized afterward. He sought justice in his own way afterward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_a... Not really relevant, but the ridiculous (and secret) police response once they knew they were being targeted had bad consequences for others too. I have a house near where this multi-agency incident (links below) occurred and there was so much gunfire for such a long period that I knew it had to be cops doing the shooting. https://www.kpcc.org/2014-01-15/la-district-attorney-torrance-cop-who-fired-at-wro https://www.kpcc.org/2014-01-15/la-district-attorney-torranc... https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-lapd-shooting-newspaper-delivery-women-dorner-manhunt-20160127-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-lapd...
- stametseater 4y ago
  Dorner murdered two people who had nothing to do with the LAPD. One was a campus security guard at the University of South Carolina and the other wasn't any sort of cop at all, she was a basketball coach. Even if you believe all of Dorner's allegations against the LAPD, Dorner was still a mass murdering psychopath who targeted and murdering innocent people. In light of that, why would you believe any of his allegations in the first place? Hero worship of Dorner is an insane 4chanism, shame on you. Dorner was nothing more than another murderous cop.
  - anonymousiam 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure that I did not express any sympathy or support for what Dorner did in my post. I do believe though that it's more likely than not that the excessive force he reported actually occurred. His record up to that point was exemplary. After he snapped, his murderous rage was not typical behavior for law enforcement, but it is a fact that psychopathy is far more prevalent in police officers than in the general population. One could argue about whether this is because psychos are drawn to the police profession, or that the nature of the work the police do causes mental problems. https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=jj_etds https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
    - stametseater 4y ago
      > He sought justice in his own way afterward: There was no justice in it. You're also taking for granted that the misjustice he claimed to have seen actually happened. Taking seriously the word of a man we know murdered innocent people.
      - anonymousiam 4y ago
        I'm not taking anyone's word for anything. I'm just speculating at what triggered him and why. He obviously believed that he was wronged when the report he filed was dismissed, and he was subsequently fired. If he filed a false report, then he deserved to get fired. If he filed an accurate report, and the (documented) culture of corruption among LAPD conspired to discredit him (and destroy his life), he may have felt that his actions were justified. Again, you need to stop confusing my analysis for support and sympathy for Dorner. He obviously exhibited some mental problems and very poor judgement, but stressful conditions can do that to otherwise good people: https://futuresrecoveryhealthcare.com/blog/psychotic-break-vs-nervous-breakdown/ https://futuresrecoveryhealthcare.com/blog/psychotic-break-v...
- hooverd 4y ago
  Donner is a really terrible example. Adrian Schoolcraft or Stephen Mader (fired for deescalating a situation instead of shooting) are cut and dry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft [2] https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-lethal-force-cop-fired-west-virginia/ https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-leth...
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
<< One question I consider: is a cop that never violates anyone’s civil rights, but also does nothing when their coworkers do, considered a good cop? It is not a bad question to ask. Lets do what lawyers do: change one fact and see how it affects the case at hand. Issue at hand is bad behavior of individuals in a group. Is individual guilty of actions committed by other individuals while being part of that group? I suppose it depends. Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their politicians? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their sheriffs? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their neighbors? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their partners? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their kids? I have problem with either of those despite seeing clearly what you are getting at. Starting from the bottom, I have a problem with 'sins of the father' justification all the way to the politician. I see an abstract reasoning that can take us to 'yes, inaction is a choice too', but is it in the same category? Does it even have the same weight? << There were even active coverups, Kentucky’s Attorney General went to great lengths to push the idea that the entire thing was perfectly legal! Chicago is not better. Some stories are heart-wrenching and, as I stated before, I would not be able to be a cop just based on those alone, but I personally think you are trying to spread sin way too thin, which, contrary to what you think you are doing, is only distributing accountability even further and alienate even those, who could reasonably agree with you otherwise. In very simple terms, if you are gonna define me as bad apple anyway by association only, I might as well stick to my tribe, where at least I will have some level of protection from the outside. And that, I think, is the true problem.

hooverd 4y ago

There are bad cops, and cops who choose to look away, and I'm sure these are all perfectly wonderful people off the clock, but my example of a good cop is Adrian Schoolcraft and look what they did to him.

anonymousiam 4y ago

It depends on what a cop does when he sees misconduct by others. Christopher Dorner reported misconduct, but was ostracized afterward. He sought justice in his own way afterward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_a... Not really relevant, but the ridiculous (and secret) police response once they knew they were being targeted had bad consequences for others too. I have a house near where this multi-agency incident (links below) occurred and there was so much gunfire for such a long period that I knew it had to be cops doing the shooting. https://www.kpcc.org/2014-01-15/la-district-attorney-torrance-cop-who-fired-at-wro https://www.kpcc.org/2014-01-15/la-district-attorney-torranc... https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-lapd-shooting-newspaper-delivery-women-dorner-manhunt-20160127-story.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-no-charges-lapd...

stametseater 4y ago
Dorner murdered two people who had nothing to do with the LAPD. One was a campus security guard at the University of South Carolina and the other wasn't any sort of cop at all, she was a basketball coach. Even if you believe all of Dorner's allegations against the LAPD, Dorner was still a mass murdering psychopath who targeted and murdering innocent people. In light of that, why would you believe any of his allegations in the first place? Hero worship of Dorner is an insane 4chanism, shame on you. Dorner was nothing more than another murderous cop.
- anonymousiam 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure that I did not express any sympathy or support for what Dorner did in my post. I do believe though that it's more likely than not that the excessive force he reported actually occurred. His record up to that point was exemplary. After he snapped, his murderous rage was not typical behavior for law enforcement, but it is a fact that psychopathy is far more prevalent in police officers than in the general population. One could argue about whether this is because psychos are drawn to the police profession, or that the nature of the work the police do causes mental problems. https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1166&context=jj_etds https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
  - stametseater 4y ago
    > He sought justice in his own way afterward: There was no justice in it. You're also taking for granted that the misjustice he claimed to have seen actually happened. Taking seriously the word of a man we know murdered innocent people.
    - anonymousiam 4y ago
      I'm not taking anyone's word for anything. I'm just speculating at what triggered him and why. He obviously believed that he was wronged when the report he filed was dismissed, and he was subsequently fired. If he filed a false report, then he deserved to get fired. If he filed an accurate report, and the (documented) culture of corruption among LAPD conspired to discredit him (and destroy his life), he may have felt that his actions were justified. Again, you need to stop confusing my analysis for support and sympathy for Dorner. He obviously exhibited some mental problems and very poor judgement, but stressful conditions can do that to otherwise good people: https://futuresrecoveryhealthcare.com/blog/psychotic-break-vs-nervous-breakdown/ https://futuresrecoveryhealthcare.com/blog/psychotic-break-v...
hooverd 4y ago
Donner is a really terrible example. Adrian Schoolcraft or Stephen Mader (fired for deescalating a situation instead of shooting) are cut and dry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft [2] https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-lethal-force-cop-fired-west-virginia/ https://features.propublica.org/weirton/police-shooting-leth...

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

<< One question I consider: is a cop that never violates anyone’s civil rights, but also does nothing when their coworkers do, considered a good cop? It is not a bad question to ask. Lets do what lawyers do: change one fact and see how it affects the case at hand. Issue at hand is bad behavior of individuals in a group. Is individual guilty of actions committed by other individuals while being part of that group? I suppose it depends. Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their politicians? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their sheriffs? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their neighbors? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their partners? Is a random US citizen guilty of actions of their kids? I have problem with either of those despite seeing clearly what you are getting at. Starting from the bottom, I have a problem with 'sins of the father' justification all the way to the politician. I see an abstract reasoning that can take us to 'yes, inaction is a choice too', but is it in the same category? Does it even have the same weight? << There were even active coverups, Kentucky’s Attorney General went to great lengths to push the idea that the entire thing was perfectly legal! Chicago is not better. Some stories are heart-wrenching and, as I stated before, I would not be able to be a cop just based on those alone, but I personally think you are trying to spread sin way too thin, which, contrary to what you think you are doing, is only distributing accountability even further and alienate even those, who could reasonably agree with you otherwise. In very simple terms, if you are gonna define me as bad apple anyway by association only, I might as well stick to my tribe, where at least I will have some level of protection from the outside. And that, I think, is the true problem.