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I'm fairly proficient with both Vim and Emacs and I can feel it when I'm not using either editor. For example, I'm using a browser on Windows and I want to jum

by nyellin 15y ago

I'm fairly proficient with both Vim and Emacs and I can feel it when I'm not using either editor. For example, I'm using a browser on Windows and I want to jump to a line's end. In Emacs (or on OS X which uses Emacs shortcuts), that's Ctrl-E and in Vim that's $. On Windows, I fumble with the arrow keys or start reaching for the mouse. When you really know a fundamental text editor, that sensation of helplessness gets worse and worse when you can't use the shortcuts that are burned into your fingers. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest reading the StackOverflow answer "Your problem with Vim is that you don't grok vi." http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118

beza1e1 15y ago
That just means that you don't know the hotkeys, does it? It does not suggest that Emacs or Vim is objectively better.
- chalst 15y ago
  No, I think he meant not internalising the proper use of vi's composed count-movement-edit commands and ex commands.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- gchpaco 15y ago
  The conventional end-of-line hotkey for Windows applications is the End key, which on a fairly traditional keyboard like the one I am typing this on requires that my right hand move several inches to the right and find that key on the island; I can't touch type this effectively and it compares poorly to C-e or even $ (itself not especially a convenient operation). Gnome and the Mac don't have this problem because both of them largely retain the simpler Emacs style keystrokes; Firefox does have this problem (at least here) and it pisses me off every time.
Shorel 15y ago
I think Opera comes with a VIM compatible keyboard setup.
knewter 15y ago
Good God, this. I spend 95% of each day (not just my 8-5 - 95% of my time on a computer at all) in vim. The rest is in firefox or in a console briefly to tell it to run my tests. I code all day every day, and I quite enjoy it. Today, I had a 7 hour meeting with a customer to spec out a new project. I had to put together mockups in balsamiq. On a mac (I'm a linux user). My level of discomfort was extremely high, eclipsed only by the fact that since a customer was there I couldn't take to just cursing like a sailor. When you keep your hands on the home row for an entire day and then all of the sudden you have multitouch swipe gestures and clickie-scrollie touchpads and home keys that don't go home and delete keys that delete the wrong direction and inadequate terminal emulators, HOLY CRAP IS IT LIKE MINI-DYING. That's all. I just completely feel you.
- nyellin 15y ago
  You may like Pentadactyl.
itsameta4 15y ago
Am I the only one that uses 'Home' and 'End' on a frequent basis? On standard keyboards, they're right by the arrow keys anyway. On my laptop, it's just fn+arrow for home, end, and page up/down, and my pinky is usually right there anyway for the control and meta keys.
- nyellin 15y ago
  The very first thing vim users learn is to avoid the arrow keys. I hate moving my fingers off the home room to navigate. Using hjkl for navigation removes that pesky break between inserting text and navigating.

by nyellin 15y ago

beza1e1 15y ago

That just means that you don't know the hotkeys, does it? It does not suggest that Emacs or Vim is objectively better.

chalst 15y ago
No, I think he meant not internalising the proper use of vi's composed count-movement-edit commands and ex commands.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
gchpaco 15y ago
The conventional end-of-line hotkey for Windows applications is the End key, which on a fairly traditional keyboard like the one I am typing this on requires that my right hand move several inches to the right and find that key on the island; I can't touch type this effectively and it compares poorly to C-e or even $ (itself not especially a convenient operation). Gnome and the Mac don't have this problem because both of them largely retain the simpler Emacs style keystrokes; Firefox does have this problem (at least here) and it pisses me off every time.

Shorel 15y ago

I think Opera comes with a VIM compatible keyboard setup.

knewter 15y ago

Good God, this. I spend 95% of each day (not just my 8-5 - 95% of my time on a computer at all) in vim. The rest is in firefox or in a console briefly to tell it to run my tests. I code all day every day, and I quite enjoy it. Today, I had a 7 hour meeting with a customer to spec out a new project. I had to put together mockups in balsamiq. On a mac (I'm a linux user). My level of discomfort was extremely high, eclipsed only by the fact that since a customer was there I couldn't take to just cursing like a sailor. When you keep your hands on the home row for an entire day and then all of the sudden you have multitouch swipe gestures and clickie-scrollie touchpads and home keys that don't go home and delete keys that delete the wrong direction and inadequate terminal emulators, HOLY CRAP IS IT LIKE MINI-DYING. That's all. I just completely feel you.

nyellin 15y ago
You may like Pentadactyl.

itsameta4 15y ago

Am I the only one that uses 'Home' and 'End' on a frequent basis? On standard keyboards, they're right by the arrow keys anyway. On my laptop, it's just fn+arrow for home, end, and page up/down, and my pinky is usually right there anyway for the control and meta keys.

nyellin 15y ago
The very first thing vim users learn is to avoid the arrow keys. I hate moving my fingers off the home room to navigate. Using hjkl for navigation removes that pesky break between inserting text and navigating.