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I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other compa

I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Really hope there is. Also, on another note, I've read this engadget article about how other companies tried to build an upgradeable laptop and failed but I see Framework as a different kind of beast for one simple reason. This is their only value proposition, they don't have an alternative. In a very "Innovator's Dilemma" kind of. way, Dell and other big manufacturers have their main lines with higher margins and/or volume that really drives their attention and money, so any new innovation that takes more than 1 to 3 years to mature gets cut pretty fast. For Framework is kind a kind of "burn the ships" moment, they don't have anything else to turn to, so they have to keep pushing. I really hope they shine (and don't get acquired)!

afavour 4y ago
I’d be surprised if there was a market for a Framework laptop dedicated to gaming but I am really intrigued by a Framework laptop that can game. I use my laptop for my work software engineering but since the pandemic have gotten back into gaming a little. I’m on an old Xbox and it’s showing its age but I don’t game enough to justify buying a whole gaming PC. If I can plug a GPU into my work machine and play some games? Now that’s compelling. The fact that it wouldn’t have all the cringey “gamer” decorations you see on the average gaming laptop would be a bonus too. (all that said a Steam Deck is probably still the more compelling purchase for me in that regard, I’ve been eyeing one for a while)
- _fat_santa 4y ago
  > Framework laptop dedicated to gaming Isn't one of the advantages of Framework that you can swap out parts, so it would be much easier for them (theoretically) to build a gaming version of the laptop.
- zahrc 4y ago
  Definitely go with the Steam Deck. It’s literally a portable pc which you can turn adhoc into a workstation, plug into a TV for sofa gaming and it’s really really bang for buck. The performance is amazing, the community caring and it runs on Linux.
- blakblakarak 4y ago
  Personally I use an Xbox Series X and just stream my games to my phone or macbook air (using https://github.com/unknownskl/xbox-xcloud-client/releases https://github.com/unknownskl/xbox-xcloud-client/releases) - performance is great.
- aos 4y ago
  I game on a framework laptop with an eGPU. I have a Razor Core Chroma with a Radeon 2060. There’s plenty of guides out there to get it up and running [^1]. I did try to get it working under Linux but wayland support for Nvidia is still a mess. For now, I’ve been dual-booting Windows to play my games on. It works really well. 1. https://egpu.io/best-external-graphics-card-builds/ https://egpu.io/best-external-graphics-card-builds/
- runjake 4y ago
  Apparently there will be, with the 16”. See this HN comment from the founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35289229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35289229
- dakial1 4y ago
  I have the Steam Deck, I mean, I had it, because I'm waiting for the RMA because mine had a nasty bug which capped either CPU or GPU at a low level. And this is my message to you: Beware it is pretty much a beta product, so buy it with this in mind. You will experience lot of bugs and troubleshooting, specially if you want to use it outside Steam's box (custom mods, emulator's etc).
itronitron 4y ago
>> I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Yes, there is. We have four in our family, since ~2018, and three of them continue to run without issue. The main weak point for the 4th one has been the hinges and case. It happens to be a later model so I think the company 'value-engineered' it to have a shorter lifespan.
- liamN 4y ago
  I wont discount that as a possibility, but it kind of goes against the company's mission, so I think thats kind of unlikely. A more likely explanation (in my mind) is that being a small company, there's a lot more variability of quality in each unit's parts than you would see from a larger company with more mature factories etc. My partner and I both have frameworks, but mine has had a lot of issues with the track pad and theyve never experienced any.
  - nrp 4y ago
    I think the poster is stating that their family has four gaming laptops, but zero Framework Laptops, since our first product only shipped in 2021. On your trackpad, could you reach out to our support team? We definitely want to resolve that for you.
    - itronitron 4y ago
      Yes, to be clear the gaming laptops I was describing are not Framework laptops :)
case 4y ago
Anecdotally, it’s one of the main reasons I got one. Aside from work things that require Windows, it can run plenty of PC games. Especially when combined with an external GPU via Thunderbolt.
nrp 4y ago
We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.
- Runways 4y ago
  If you could make it so you can completely turn off the dGPU through software (boot menu?), pulling no power, it would be insane. I would love the power of a dGPU to play casually on trips but turn it off for normal use when I'm just working. Also, I LOVE that it wouldn't look like a gaming laptop. I'm tired of the gamer-esque design cues, even when they're subtle (RGB keyboards are okay if configurable).
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    You can completely turn off dGPUs from software nowadays. In theory the driver should do it for you when it's not in use (And I find this works well for me), but you can also forcefully turn them off, both on Windows and Linux, such that they draw exactly 0W.
    - Runways 4y ago
      Hmmm. My experience with XPS 15s is you can turn it off with software in Linux, but it was pretty technical (not something average users would be keen on). I wasn't sure if that was the case for most laptops. It definitely wasn't drawing 0W when I was just coding/browsing/etc though, it doubled the battery life in Linux when I turned it off.
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        It depends on how recent the motherboard and GPU is, if you have an NVidia dGPU. If you have a GPU made in the last two years and a recent CPU, it works automatically out of the box with X11. On older systems, it's pretty technical, but thankfully many distributions now come with tools that handle it all for you and give you a button you can click to turn it off.
sudosysgen 4y ago
Upgradeability is a huge plus for gaming laptops, and they're likely to get very favourable reviews from PC gaming reviewers, so I think they'll probably be successful!
- safety1st 4y ago
  That's a great point. While laptop makers who are used to the status quo probably aren't going to like this, the competitive gaming scene might like it a lot. A laptop where you can always have the latest greatest graphics card without replacing the whole laptop? You could charge a lot of money for that and it would still make financial sense for a certain type of person. I mean someone out there is buying the latest top of the line Razer Blade every year for like $4K right?
lumb63 4y ago
I think Framework open sourcing their design helps a lot too. It creates a community and helps fix the “manufacturer couldn’t deliver what we wanted”. Don’t like something? Fix it!
Floegipoky 4y ago
I predict that these are going to be a hit with CS students. Performance, customization, repairability, "geek cool" factor; it's exactly what I would have bought.
cush 4y ago
The market for gaming laptops is tiny, but long term upgradability is a big barrier there. It's possible that being able to upgrade the battery, GPU, CPU, even thermals, could be super enticing to the PC builder community.
zamerick 4y ago
"Gaming" is a wider demographic to target and makes sense from a marketing standpoint. However, the people that benefit from the same level of hardware and would be interested in the mission and aesthetics of framework are creators. Video content, indie/hobby game dev, light modeling, design work etc. This is really the group that's going to get excited about a 16" laptop with more graphics horsepower. I know I am.

afavour 4y ago

I’d be surprised if there was a market for a Framework laptop dedicated to gaming but I am really intrigued by a Framework laptop that can game. I use my laptop for my work software engineering but since the pandemic have gotten back into gaming a little. I’m on an old Xbox and it’s showing its age but I don’t game enough to justify buying a whole gaming PC. If I can plug a GPU into my work machine and play some games? Now that’s compelling. The fact that it wouldn’t have all the cringey “gamer” decorations you see on the average gaming laptop would be a bonus too. (all that said a Steam Deck is probably still the more compelling purchase for me in that regard, I’ve been eyeing one for a while)

_fat_santa 4y ago
> Framework laptop dedicated to gaming Isn't one of the advantages of Framework that you can swap out parts, so it would be much easier for them (theoretically) to build a gaming version of the laptop.
zahrc 4y ago
Definitely go with the Steam Deck. It’s literally a portable pc which you can turn adhoc into a workstation, plug into a TV for sofa gaming and it’s really really bang for buck. The performance is amazing, the community caring and it runs on Linux.
blakblakarak 4y ago
Personally I use an Xbox Series X and just stream my games to my phone or macbook air (using https://github.com/unknownskl/xbox-xcloud-client/releases https://github.com/unknownskl/xbox-xcloud-client/releases) - performance is great.
aos 4y ago
I game on a framework laptop with an eGPU. I have a Razor Core Chroma with a Radeon 2060. There’s plenty of guides out there to get it up and running [^1]. I did try to get it working under Linux but wayland support for Nvidia is still a mess. For now, I’ve been dual-booting Windows to play my games on. It works really well. 1. https://egpu.io/best-external-graphics-card-builds/ https://egpu.io/best-external-graphics-card-builds/
runjake 4y ago
Apparently there will be, with the 16”. See this HN comment from the founder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35289229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35289229
dakial1 4y ago
I have the Steam Deck, I mean, I had it, because I'm waiting for the RMA because mine had a nasty bug which capped either CPU or GPU at a low level. And this is my message to you: Beware it is pretty much a beta product, so buy it with this in mind. You will experience lot of bugs and troubleshooting, specially if you want to use it outside Steam's box (custom mods, emulator's etc).

itronitron 4y ago

>> I wonder if there is a market for a framework gaming laptop. Yes, there is. We have four in our family, since ~2018, and three of them continue to run without issue. The main weak point for the 4th one has been the hinges and case. It happens to be a later model so I think the company 'value-engineered' it to have a shorter lifespan.

liamN 4y ago
I wont discount that as a possibility, but it kind of goes against the company's mission, so I think thats kind of unlikely. A more likely explanation (in my mind) is that being a small company, there's a lot more variability of quality in each unit's parts than you would see from a larger company with more mature factories etc. My partner and I both have frameworks, but mine has had a lot of issues with the track pad and theyve never experienced any.
- nrp 4y ago
  I think the poster is stating that their family has four gaming laptops, but zero Framework Laptops, since our first product only shipped in 2021. On your trackpad, could you reach out to our support team? We definitely want to resolve that for you.
  - itronitron 4y ago
    Yes, to be clear the gaming laptops I was describing are not Framework laptops :)

case 4y ago

Anecdotally, it’s one of the main reasons I got one. Aside from work things that require Windows, it can run plenty of PC games. Especially when combined with an external GPU via Thunderbolt.

nrp 4y ago

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

Runways 4y ago
If you could make it so you can completely turn off the dGPU through software (boot menu?), pulling no power, it would be insane. I would love the power of a dGPU to play casually on trips but turn it off for normal use when I'm just working. Also, I LOVE that it wouldn't look like a gaming laptop. I'm tired of the gamer-esque design cues, even when they're subtle (RGB keyboards are okay if configurable).
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  You can completely turn off dGPUs from software nowadays. In theory the driver should do it for you when it's not in use (And I find this works well for me), but you can also forcefully turn them off, both on Windows and Linux, such that they draw exactly 0W.
  - Runways 4y ago
    Hmmm. My experience with XPS 15s is you can turn it off with software in Linux, but it was pretty technical (not something average users would be keen on). I wasn't sure if that was the case for most laptops. It definitely wasn't drawing 0W when I was just coding/browsing/etc though, it doubled the battery life in Linux when I turned it off.
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      It depends on how recent the motherboard and GPU is, if you have an NVidia dGPU. If you have a GPU made in the last two years and a recent CPU, it works automatically out of the box with X11. On older systems, it's pretty technical, but thankfully many distributions now come with tools that handle it all for you and give you a button you can click to turn it off.

sudosysgen 4y ago

Upgradeability is a huge plus for gaming laptops, and they're likely to get very favourable reviews from PC gaming reviewers, so I think they'll probably be successful!

safety1st 4y ago
That's a great point. While laptop makers who are used to the status quo probably aren't going to like this, the competitive gaming scene might like it a lot. A laptop where you can always have the latest greatest graphics card without replacing the whole laptop? You could charge a lot of money for that and it would still make financial sense for a certain type of person. I mean someone out there is buying the latest top of the line Razer Blade every year for like $4K right?

lumb63 4y ago

I think Framework open sourcing their design helps a lot too. It creates a community and helps fix the “manufacturer couldn’t deliver what we wanted”. Don’t like something? Fix it!

Floegipoky 4y ago

I predict that these are going to be a hit with CS students. Performance, customization, repairability, "geek cool" factor; it's exactly what I would have bought.

cush 4y ago

The market for gaming laptops is tiny, but long term upgradability is a big barrier there. It's possible that being able to upgrade the battery, GPU, CPU, even thermals, could be super enticing to the PC builder community.

zamerick 4y ago

"Gaming" is a wider demographic to target and makes sense from a marketing standpoint. However, the people that benefit from the same level of hardware and would be interested in the mission and aesthetics of framework are creators. Video content, indie/hobby game dev, light modeling, design work etc. This is really the group that's going to get excited about a 16" laptop with more graphics horsepower. I know I am.