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Are there any 13" laptops on the market with more than 4 ports? None that come to my mind. My macbook air has only 2 x USB C and I've never come across a situat

Are there any 13" laptops on the market with more than 4 ports? None that come to my mind. My macbook air has only 2 x USB C and I've never come across a situation where I needed more. For a 13" 4 ports is more than most people require and it wouldn't make sense for a small start up to only target extremely niche use cases.

kuschku 4y ago
My T470 has on the left side: 1x charging port, 1x Thunderbolt/USB-C, 1x USB-A And on the right side: 2x USB-A, SD-Card reader HDMI, headphone/microphone jack. On a 14" laptop.
causi 4y ago
My ten inch Win Max 2 has 2x USB-C, 3x USB-A, HDMI, headphone jack, a full size SD card slot and a microSD slot, a 2280 m.2 slot and a 2230 m.2 slot. Demand better of your manufacturers.
- ris58h 4y ago
  Why should I demand if I don't use them?
  - causi 4y ago
    If you don't, you shouldn't. But then why want a Framework?
goosedragons 4y ago
4 ports total or 4 USB C ports? A ThinkPad X13 has two USB C, two USB A and an HDMI port. Not that hard to use all of them without a hub. One USB C for power, USB A for keyboard/mouse, HDMI for monitor and the other USB C for external SSD.
- jamespo 4y ago
  Wired mouse & keyboard? No thanks, or if you do much nicer to have them plugged into a usb c screen.
- cduzz 4y ago
  In the distant past I was of the "need more ports" camp, but with the advent of USB C hubs that have power pass through. One thing to plug into the computer. They're cheap enough that I've got one at my "normal" workstation area (with an external keyboard, printer, external monitor, printer, power supply, and wired ethernet) and another in my laptop bag that's got basically the same. I've had lots of experiences of a laptop festooned with nubs getting caught / smashed in such a way (from normal in/out of the bag or being put down hard on an end) that the plastic shells or cables get destroyed and I have to fish bits of usb jack out of the laptop. After a decade (it feels like, anyhow) the USB-C promise seems real. (edited to add power supply to list of things on the "home" usb hub)
Leimi 4y ago
thinkpad x13, hp 835 g9, dell latitude… and if you go for a 14" laptop, connectivity is even better while still having a small device. I'm not sure more than 4 ports is _extremely_ niche use case especially for a work device, but yeah I get that most people would be okay with it and I understand Framework's choice.
planede 4y ago
I have an Acer travelmate spin b3, which is a 11" convertible laptop. Left side: * barrel jack charging port * HDMI * microSD slot * USB-C (also usable for charging) * Gigabit ethernet Right side: * USB-A * 3.5mm jack Even discounting the microSD slot and the barrel jack, this is 5 ports. On a 11" laptop. Granted, it's not exactly thin, but I really don't care.
- henearkr 4y ago
  On the Framework laptop 13, the 3.5mm jack is built-in (not an expansion card).
- Uvix 4y ago
  And the 13” Framework has a 3.5mm jack in addition to the four expansion cards, meaning the two are neck-and-neck. Maybe the Framework could have squeezed in some more ports if they weren’t customizable, but I prefer the flexibility.
t344344 4y ago
It is not a laptop, but Asus PN53 has 1kg with 7 USB port, 2x2.5 Gb ethernet, 4x4k@60Hz displays, 64GB RAM and 3xSSD. I use it as a docking station while traveling.
JoshTriplett 4y ago
The X1 Carbon has two USB-C, two USB-A, a full-sized HDMI, and a headphone jack. I don't personally feel like the framework 13 needs more than 4 expansion bays, but I'd love to see expansion cards that use Thunderbolt to offer (for instance) two USB-C ports, or a USB-C and a USB-A. (There are some experimental unofficial ones attempting this.) If those were available, my four expansion bays would be one Ethernet, one HDMI, and two 2-USB port cards.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  There's been discussion of multi-port cards for a while. The main problem is how many different things you can shove on top of USB-C: - USB 2/3 - Power delivery - DisplayPort[0] - PCI Express - Analog audio - USB4 You need some kind of chip that can negotiate two ports' worth of that nonsense and appropriately multiplex them into the correct set of altmodes on the interior port. Some of them have readily available and widely implemented hub silicon. Some of them require cursed nonsense like DisplayPort MST[1]. Some of them don't even have a hub mechanism - what do you do if someone plugs in two analog audio dongles? Mix the signals together? Furthermore, as far as I'm aware such a "miracle dongle" chip does not exist. If it did, it very much would not fit inside the tiny footprint that a Framework expansion card does. One key thing to note is that because USB-C is reversible, all the high-speed data modes need a mux chip per port. So even a simple USB3 hub card with no power delivery or altmode support is going to need either several support chips or hideously expensive-to-design Framework silicon. As it currently stands the state of multi-port USB-C dongles is absolutely terrible. Just... go to your local Best Buy, and look at the terrible compatibility of the multi-port dongles in the Apple section. [0] There used to be an HDMI altmode, nobody uses it. All HDMI-to-USB-C dongles on the market are actually HDMI-to-DisplayPort-to-USB-C dongles. I'm not mentioning the really cursed altmodes like MyDP (Nintendo Switch dock) or VirtualLink (VR headsets). That last one violates spec by reusing the USB 2 pins, necessitating the existence of bespoke 2-to-3 silicon that only people who hate USB 2 audio noise bother with. [1] I didn't understand why Apple banned MST until I had to use it: I have a triple monitor setup that needs to go over two optical cables to my computer in another room. The first MST hub I tried would hang Windows for so long I triggered some kind of display detection failsafe that bluescreens the kernel. The second one (an older standard) worked decently, except it wouldn't pass through EDID for one of my monitors. I worked around that with custom resolutions, which stopped working last September in a really weird way. If I connect all three monitors through the MST hub, the GPU cursor overlay refuses to move onto any monitor behind the hub. And that's only with the combination of MST + custom resolutions: if I only have one monitor on it's fine, if I give the other monitor a third cable it's fine.
codedokode 4y ago
The manufacturers do everything wrong. Why not add 10 ports to every laptop? Are USB-A sockets so expensive? It surprises me especially that MacBooks seem to be targeted at professionals, like creators and creators always have lot of stuff with USB plugs - like MIDI keyboards, MIDI controllers, external audio interfaces, mouse, drawing tablet, external hard drives - but MacBook only has like 3 sockets, despite being super expensive.
- bityard 4y ago
  That's how you sell $300 thunderbolt docks!
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  > Are USB-A sockets so expensive? I mean... objectively speaking here: yes. They eat up a ridiculously large amount of physical space. Ports are cheap when space is cheap. Space is at a very high premium for laptops. The port doesn't just magically disappear into the machine, it eats up that entire chunk of the laptop. Space which could be going to mainboard / speakers / hid / battery. So modern laptops give you a very high bandwidth and low physical size bus (thunderbolt/usb-c) and a duplicate so you can charge at the same time and that's really all you need. Now I get the best laptop for the space the case takes up and the option to plug all that other stuff in is still there. The bus is plenty fast, you just need an adapter or dock. I have a 4 usb-c port machine. I've never had all 4 ports in use at the same time. I have (just counting plugs on my hub) 9 usb devices and 2 4k monitors plugged into my machine. Switching them over from work to personal laptop is as simple as unplugging and replugging a usb-c cable. Feels fine to me.

kuschku 4y ago

My T470 has on the left side: 1x charging port, 1x Thunderbolt/USB-C, 1x USB-A And on the right side: 2x USB-A, SD-Card reader HDMI, headphone/microphone jack. On a 14" laptop.

causi 4y ago

My ten inch Win Max 2 has 2x USB-C, 3x USB-A, HDMI, headphone jack, a full size SD card slot and a microSD slot, a 2280 m.2 slot and a 2230 m.2 slot. Demand better of your manufacturers.

ris58h 4y ago
Why should I demand if I don't use them?
- causi 4y ago
  If you don't, you shouldn't. But then why want a Framework?

goosedragons 4y ago

4 ports total or 4 USB C ports? A ThinkPad X13 has two USB C, two USB A and an HDMI port. Not that hard to use all of them without a hub. One USB C for power, USB A for keyboard/mouse, HDMI for monitor and the other USB C for external SSD.

jamespo 4y ago
Wired mouse & keyboard? No thanks, or if you do much nicer to have them plugged into a usb c screen.
cduzz 4y ago
In the distant past I was of the "need more ports" camp, but with the advent of USB C hubs that have power pass through. One thing to plug into the computer. They're cheap enough that I've got one at my "normal" workstation area (with an external keyboard, printer, external monitor, printer, power supply, and wired ethernet) and another in my laptop bag that's got basically the same. I've had lots of experiences of a laptop festooned with nubs getting caught / smashed in such a way (from normal in/out of the bag or being put down hard on an end) that the plastic shells or cables get destroyed and I have to fish bits of usb jack out of the laptop. After a decade (it feels like, anyhow) the USB-C promise seems real. (edited to add power supply to list of things on the "home" usb hub)

Leimi 4y ago

thinkpad x13, hp 835 g9, dell latitude… and if you go for a 14" laptop, connectivity is even better while still having a small device. I'm not sure more than 4 ports is _extremely_ niche use case especially for a work device, but yeah I get that most people would be okay with it and I understand Framework's choice.

planede 4y ago

I have an Acer travelmate spin b3, which is a 11" convertible laptop. Left side: * barrel jack charging port * HDMI * microSD slot * USB-C (also usable for charging) * Gigabit ethernet Right side: * USB-A * 3.5mm jack Even discounting the microSD slot and the barrel jack, this is 5 ports. On a 11" laptop. Granted, it's not exactly thin, but I really don't care.

henearkr 4y ago
On the Framework laptop 13, the 3.5mm jack is built-in (not an expansion card).
Uvix 4y ago
And the 13” Framework has a 3.5mm jack in addition to the four expansion cards, meaning the two are neck-and-neck. Maybe the Framework could have squeezed in some more ports if they weren’t customizable, but I prefer the flexibility.

t344344 4y ago

It is not a laptop, but Asus PN53 has 1kg with 7 USB port, 2x2.5 Gb ethernet, 4x4k@60Hz displays, 64GB RAM and 3xSSD. I use it as a docking station while traveling.

JoshTriplett 4y ago

The X1 Carbon has two USB-C, two USB-A, a full-sized HDMI, and a headphone jack. I don't personally feel like the framework 13 needs more than 4 expansion bays, but I'd love to see expansion cards that use Thunderbolt to offer (for instance) two USB-C ports, or a USB-C and a USB-A. (There are some experimental unofficial ones attempting this.) If those were available, my four expansion bays would be one Ethernet, one HDMI, and two 2-USB port cards.

kmeisthax 4y ago
There's been discussion of multi-port cards for a while. The main problem is how many different things you can shove on top of USB-C: - USB 2/3 - Power delivery - DisplayPort[0] - PCI Express - Analog audio - USB4 You need some kind of chip that can negotiate two ports' worth of that nonsense and appropriately multiplex them into the correct set of altmodes on the interior port. Some of them have readily available and widely implemented hub silicon. Some of them require cursed nonsense like DisplayPort MST[1]. Some of them don't even have a hub mechanism - what do you do if someone plugs in two analog audio dongles? Mix the signals together? Furthermore, as far as I'm aware such a "miracle dongle" chip does not exist. If it did, it very much would not fit inside the tiny footprint that a Framework expansion card does. One key thing to note is that because USB-C is reversible, all the high-speed data modes need a mux chip per port. So even a simple USB3 hub card with no power delivery or altmode support is going to need either several support chips or hideously expensive-to-design Framework silicon. As it currently stands the state of multi-port USB-C dongles is absolutely terrible. Just... go to your local Best Buy, and look at the terrible compatibility of the multi-port dongles in the Apple section. [0] There used to be an HDMI altmode, nobody uses it. All HDMI-to-USB-C dongles on the market are actually HDMI-to-DisplayPort-to-USB-C dongles. I'm not mentioning the really cursed altmodes like MyDP (Nintendo Switch dock) or VirtualLink (VR headsets). That last one violates spec by reusing the USB 2 pins, necessitating the existence of bespoke 2-to-3 silicon that only people who hate USB 2 audio noise bother with. [1] I didn't understand why Apple banned MST until I had to use it: I have a triple monitor setup that needs to go over two optical cables to my computer in another room. The first MST hub I tried would hang Windows for so long I triggered some kind of display detection failsafe that bluescreens the kernel. The second one (an older standard) worked decently, except it wouldn't pass through EDID for one of my monitors. I worked around that with custom resolutions, which stopped working last September in a really weird way. If I connect all three monitors through the MST hub, the GPU cursor overlay refuses to move onto any monitor behind the hub. And that's only with the combination of MST + custom resolutions: if I only have one monitor on it's fine, if I give the other monitor a third cable it's fine.

codedokode 4y ago

The manufacturers do everything wrong. Why not add 10 ports to every laptop? Are USB-A sockets so expensive? It surprises me especially that MacBooks seem to be targeted at professionals, like creators and creators always have lot of stuff with USB plugs - like MIDI keyboards, MIDI controllers, external audio interfaces, mouse, drawing tablet, external hard drives - but MacBook only has like 3 sockets, despite being super expensive.

bityard 4y ago
That's how you sell $300 thunderbolt docks!
horsawlarway 4y ago
> Are USB-A sockets so expensive? I mean... objectively speaking here: yes. They eat up a ridiculously large amount of physical space. Ports are cheap when space is cheap. Space is at a very high premium for laptops. The port doesn't just magically disappear into the machine, it eats up that entire chunk of the laptop. Space which could be going to mainboard / speakers / hid / battery. So modern laptops give you a very high bandwidth and low physical size bus (thunderbolt/usb-c) and a duplicate so you can charge at the same time and that's really all you need. Now I get the best laptop for the space the case takes up and the option to plug all that other stuff in is still there. The bus is plenty fast, you just need an adapter or dock. I have a 4 usb-c port machine. I've never had all 4 ports in use at the same time. I have (just counting plugs on my hub) 9 usb devices and 2 4k monitors plugged into my machine. Switching them over from work to personal laptop is as simple as unplugging and replugging a usb-c cable. Feels fine to me.