5 ms·

I saw that movie "Friends with benefits", which made the East-West divide out to be a big deal. Is it, though?

by itmag 15y ago

bh42222 15y ago
I'm guessing you are being dowvoted because people think you are joking? I am going to assume you are not American and that this is an honest question. There is real culture difference between the large areas of America, north vs south, east vs west, etc. Now speaking as someone form the old world, America's cultural differences are still very small compared to differences between old world neighbors. Never the less, cultural differences in America do exist. I'd say north/south is a bigger deal than east/west. And when ever I hear east coast Americans talk about California, it sounds a lot like how Europeans talk about Americans in general - optimistic, the world is my oyster, etc.
- itmag 15y ago
  I am going to assume you are not American and that this is an honest question. Yup, you guessed right. The Americans I've met here in Sweden have been pretty homogenous as a whole, didn't matter if they were from SF or Kansas or Boston. They all seemed like liberal-minded europhile people. Then again, heavy selection bias.
  - bh42222 15y ago
    Ah yes, I had very same experience with Americans when I was still living in Europe. You are right, heavy selection bias it is, any American who gets on a plane and happily visit a foreign country, especially an expensive one, is not exactly representing the majority of Americans. You'd be surprised how many solidly middle class Americans have never been abroad, or only to Mexico and Canada.
    - mdda 15y ago
      30% of Americans have passports [1]. And : "Despite the climbing number of American passports in circulation, 30% is still low compared to Canada's 60% and the United Kingdom's 75%." [1] : http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.domestically_1_western-hemisphere-travel-initiative-passports-tourism-industries http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.d...
      - evgen 15y ago
        While I hate to defend American parochialism, it is worth noting that Americans can see a far greater diversity of cultures and geographies without leaving their country than is possible in most other places. A Londoner would cross six or seven national boundaries by covering less distance than it takes me to actually leave this country. There are a great mass of Americans who have no interest in travel and I can only pit them, but there are also a large group who travel quite extensively and never need a passport.
        bh42222 15y ago
        ... it is worth noting that Americans can see a far greater diversity of cultures and geographies without leaving their country than is possible in most other places. This is plainly false. Just two quick examples: No difference within the states is as big as the difference between French and English speaking parts of Canada. And a tiny country like Switzerland encompasses French, German and Italian speaking populations. A Londoner would cross six or seven national boundaries by covering less distance than it takes me to actually leave this country. This contradicts your first sentence. Also a Londoner will meet several nationalities, I don't know what you mean by "boundaries." Also a New Yorker should be right up there with Londoners.
        bane 15y ago
        You've obviously never gone from NYC to coastal Alabama in a single trip, or Hawaii to Southern Texas, or hell Washington D.C. to rural West Virginia. Sure there are plenty of accents, but some are almost outright dialects. I'd argue that English and French Canada are about as different as any of these pairs.
    - moheeb 15y ago
      Is it really surprising that within a country in which you can travel for days (by car!) and still be within it's borders that people don't travel abroad more often? It would be interesting to see travel figures for similarly sized countries such as Russia and China.
      - bh42222 15y ago
        Most people in Russia and China and much poorer than most Americans. It's hard to compare the US to anyone, it is both huge and rich. Canada is probably the most US like country. (I might get downvoted by Canadians now!)
  - gamechangr 15y ago
    I'm an American (early thirties) who has lived abroad in three countries. One thing, I've noticed is that there is specific interest in different groups. It used to be popular to go to Europe in the same way it's popular to go to Asia now. Call it globalization..I guess. Conservatives go to South America/Africa. Liberals go to Europe and Australia. Everybody goes to Islands and Asia. America is pretty divided on Liberal/conservative. Bush won by 1% (!50 Million disagreed) and Obama by 2% (147 Million disagreed). It more half and half than either side likes to believe. My point: there is quite a bit of diversity.
- mkr-hn 15y ago
  It's more urban/rural than North/South. The average person in Athens (Georgia) or Atlanta would get along fine with someone from NYC. I get weird looks (probably mutual) when I go much deeper into the exurbs of Atlanta. And it was like traveling to a different world the times I went to south Georgia and out of state by car.
  - bh42222 15y ago
    And it was like traveling to a different world the times I went to south Georgia and out of state by car. There's a webcomic I read, and the author based in the deep south, described going to a comic convention in Portland Oregon as traveling to the future.
- jessriedel 15y ago
  > Now speaking as someone form the old world, America's cultural differences are still very small compared to differences between old world neighbors. But wouldn't you say that the cultural difference between Oregon and Mississippi, or between New Mexico and New York, are bigger than the difference between Sweden and Finland?
  - bh42222 15y ago
    No I would not. A simple proof. Swedish is a Germanic language, the people are a Germanic people. Finish is a Finno-Ugric language. That's not even one of the Indo-European languages! Magyar is in the same language group. In other words, despite their physical proximity over thousand of years, Finns and Swedes have maintained a huge cultural difference. And the same goes for almost any two old world neighbors. Even the ones you may think of as super similar. As big as the differences between Oregon and Mississippi are, they really ain't much compared to the differences between France and Holland, which geographically are much closer together.
    - jessriedel 15y ago
      I'm really not that interested in language differences. Sure you can categorize this under "culture", but that's boring (Europe is more diverse, trivially) and doesn't make sense in the context of the article. More interesting differences would be political, philosophical, type of industry, standard of living, art, etc. The per capita GDP in Finland and Sweden is US$44,5000 and $47,900, respectively. For Maryland and Mississippi, it's $69,300 and $36,600. The percentage of population that has bachelor degrees or higher in Finland and Sweden is 23% and 21%. For Maryland and Mississippi it's 35% and 19%.
      - bh42222 15y ago
        OK, your first paragraph is hard to comprehend. Language is "culture" but that's boring. Europe is more diverse - but trivially? Political, standard of living, industry are apparently real differences according to you? And art somehow snuck in there too, but I guess the totally of language based art, poetry, books, etc, somehow is boring? If we are going to cherry pick how we compare places, I say let's start with climate. When talking about climate clearly Mississippi and Washington state are far more different than Sweden and Finland. Only an American could completely discount language and want to talk about GDP or GNP and industry composition. Very CIA fact book page. I freely admit by GDP and standard of living all of Western Europe is less different than Mississippi and any of the "blue" states. Hell if we're going to use CIA country fact book style information to measure differences then all of the OECD countries (this includes Japan, Europe, Canada and the US) are on average less different than just the US states. Now think about that. Does it make sense to say that just the US states are more diverse then a group with includes both Japan and most of Europe? I guess if you're an American and think language is "culture" and boring then yeah that can sound right to you.

I saw that movie "Friends with benefits", which made the East-West divide out to be a big deal. Is it, though?

by itmag 15y ago

I saw that movie "Friends with benefits", which made the East-West divide out to be a big deal. Is it, though?

I'm guessing you are being dowvoted because people think you are joking? I am going to assume you are not American and that this is an honest question. There is real culture difference between the large areas of America, north vs south, east vs west, etc. Now speaking as someone form the old world, America's cultural differences are still very small compared to differences between old world neighbors. Never the less, cultural differences in America do exist. I'd say north/south is a bigger deal than east/west. And when ever I hear east coast Americans talk about California, it sounds a lot like how Europeans talk about Americans in general - optimistic, the world is my oyster, etc.

itmag 15y ago
I am going to assume you are not American and that this is an honest question. Yup, you guessed right. The Americans I've met here in Sweden have been pretty homogenous as a whole, didn't matter if they were from SF or Kansas or Boston. They all seemed like liberal-minded europhile people. Then again, heavy selection bias.
- bh42222 15y ago
  Ah yes, I had very same experience with Americans when I was still living in Europe. You are right, heavy selection bias it is, any American who gets on a plane and happily visit a foreign country, especially an expensive one, is not exactly representing the majority of Americans. You'd be surprised how many solidly middle class Americans have never been abroad, or only to Mexico and Canada.
  - mdda 15y ago
    30% of Americans have passports [1]. And : "Despite the climbing number of American passports in circulation, 30% is still low compared to Canada's 60% and the United Kingdom's 75%." [1] : http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.domestically_1_western-hemisphere-travel-initiative-passports-tourism-industries http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.d...
    - evgen 15y ago
      While I hate to defend American parochialism, it is worth noting that Americans can see a far greater diversity of cultures and geographies without leaving their country than is possible in most other places. A Londoner would cross six or seven national boundaries by covering less distance than it takes me to actually leave this country. There are a great mass of Americans who have no interest in travel and I can only pit them, but there are also a large group who travel quite extensively and never need a passport.
      - bh42222 15y ago
        ... it is worth noting that Americans can see a far greater diversity of cultures and geographies without leaving their country than is possible in most other places. This is plainly false. Just two quick examples: No difference within the states is as big as the difference between French and English speaking parts of Canada. And a tiny country like Switzerland encompasses French, German and Italian speaking populations. A Londoner would cross six or seven national boundaries by covering less distance than it takes me to actually leave this country. This contradicts your first sentence. Also a Londoner will meet several nationalities, I don't know what you mean by "boundaries." Also a New Yorker should be right up there with Londoners.
        bane 15y ago
        You've obviously never gone from NYC to coastal Alabama in a single trip, or Hawaii to Southern Texas, or hell Washington D.C. to rural West Virginia. Sure there are plenty of accents, but some are almost outright dialects. I'd argue that English and French Canada are about as different as any of these pairs.
  - moheeb 15y ago
    Is it really surprising that within a country in which you can travel for days (by car!) and still be within it's borders that people don't travel abroad more often? It would be interesting to see travel figures for similarly sized countries such as Russia and China.
    - bh42222 15y ago
      Most people in Russia and China and much poorer than most Americans. It's hard to compare the US to anyone, it is both huge and rich. Canada is probably the most US like country. (I might get downvoted by Canadians now!)
- gamechangr 15y ago
  I'm an American (early thirties) who has lived abroad in three countries. One thing, I've noticed is that there is specific interest in different groups. It used to be popular to go to Europe in the same way it's popular to go to Asia now. Call it globalization..I guess. Conservatives go to South America/Africa. Liberals go to Europe and Australia. Everybody goes to Islands and Asia. America is pretty divided on Liberal/conservative. Bush won by 1% (!50 Million disagreed) and Obama by 2% (147 Million disagreed). It more half and half than either side likes to believe. My point: there is quite a bit of diversity.
mkr-hn 15y ago
It's more urban/rural than North/South. The average person in Athens (Georgia) or Atlanta would get along fine with someone from NYC. I get weird looks (probably mutual) when I go much deeper into the exurbs of Atlanta. And it was like traveling to a different world the times I went to south Georgia and out of state by car.
- bh42222 15y ago
  And it was like traveling to a different world the times I went to south Georgia and out of state by car. There's a webcomic I read, and the author based in the deep south, described going to a comic convention in Portland Oregon as traveling to the future.
jessriedel 15y ago
> Now speaking as someone form the old world, America's cultural differences are still very small compared to differences between old world neighbors. But wouldn't you say that the cultural difference between Oregon and Mississippi, or between New Mexico and New York, are bigger than the difference between Sweden and Finland?
- bh42222 15y ago
  No I would not. A simple proof. Swedish is a Germanic language, the people are a Germanic people. Finish is a Finno-Ugric language. That's not even one of the Indo-European languages! Magyar is in the same language group. In other words, despite their physical proximity over thousand of years, Finns and Swedes have maintained a huge cultural difference. And the same goes for almost any two old world neighbors. Even the ones you may think of as super similar. As big as the differences between Oregon and Mississippi are, they really ain't much compared to the differences between France and Holland, which geographically are much closer together.
  - jessriedel 15y ago
    I'm really not that interested in language differences. Sure you can categorize this under "culture", but that's boring (Europe is more diverse, trivially) and doesn't make sense in the context of the article. More interesting differences would be political, philosophical, type of industry, standard of living, art, etc. The per capita GDP in Finland and Sweden is US$44,5000 and $47,900, respectively. For Maryland and Mississippi, it's $69,300 and $36,600. The percentage of population that has bachelor degrees or higher in Finland and Sweden is 23% and 21%. For Maryland and Mississippi it's 35% and 19%.
    - bh42222 15y ago
      OK, your first paragraph is hard to comprehend. Language is "culture" but that's boring. Europe is more diverse - but trivially? Political, standard of living, industry are apparently real differences according to you? And art somehow snuck in there too, but I guess the totally of language based art, poetry, books, etc, somehow is boring? If we are going to cherry pick how we compare places, I say let's start with climate. When talking about climate clearly Mississippi and Washington state are far more different than Sweden and Finland. Only an American could completely discount language and want to talk about GDP or GNP and industry composition. Very CIA fact book page. I freely admit by GDP and standard of living all of Western Europe is less different than Mississippi and any of the "blue" states. Hell if we're going to use CIA country fact book style information to measure differences then all of the OECD countries (this includes Japan, Europe, Canada and the US) are on average less different than just the US states. Now think about that. Does it make sense to say that just the US states are more diverse then a group with includes both Japan and most of Europe? I guess if you're an American and think language is "culture" and boring then yeah that can sound right to you.