3 ms·

The only upper hand we have in Europe is far less reverence to the police and armed forces in general. The military is so intertwined with US national identity

The only upper hand we have in Europe is far less reverence to the police and armed forces in general. The military is so intertwined with US national identity that it's embedded in just about everything from sports to science. The US police forces are the closest to military turned inwards.

eru 4y ago
Armed forces are a pretty big deal in Finland and Switzerland as well as far as I can tell. South Korea probably, too. For the German situation in regards to sport and the military, see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsoldat https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsoldat (You might need Google Translate or so, if you don't speak German.)
- another2another 4y ago
  >and Switzerland as well as far as I can tell. Where on earth did you get that from? Armed forces are definitely not a big deal, in fact there's hardly any mention of them in public discourse, no parades or events involving the military, you hardly see them except occasionally you'll see soldiers going to their training on weekends on the train since Switzerland has national service. There's also very little jingoism or mention of historical military activities. Really, hardly at all. And that's a good thing, and as far as I can tell that's how the Swiss like it.
- jounker 4y ago
  I’m an American. I lived in Switzerland. There is no glorification of the military. It’s a job that people have to do. It’s less, “I proudly serve my country,” and much more, “Aw crap. It’s time for my annual marksmanship certification.”
klibertp 4y ago
Well, the popular and deep support for armed forces did not, by and large, make Europe any better off. On the contrary, last time we glorified armed forces it led to some 80 million dead and unimaginable destruction across the continent (and world). On the other hand, the US seems to have been served well by their army, so it's not strange for normal people to support soldiers and such.
- krapp 4y ago
  The US was in the unique situation of never having to face existential consequences for its nationalism and militarism the way the rest of the world did after World War 2, having escaped the war relatively unscathed. We see ourselves as Superman punching Hitler, instead of the middleman who bought up every Nazi and Japanese war criminal we could get our hands on, and parleyed the world's losses into superpower status through loans and asserting military and business hegemony. Unfortunately the fetish for violence in American culture is baked into the core of American identity and has been since the Second Amendment and the archetype of the armed American revolutionary patriot was seared into the zeitgeist. Americans love Dirty Harry and Jack Bauer and the gritty, no-nonsense cowboy who shoots first and asks questions never. I mean, just look at our response to 9/11. That should have been an opportunity to reflect on the policies that brought that kind of retribution about, and a chance to reconsider our assumptions about the world and our effect on it. Or at least to bring the world together under a rare common bond of global unity and do something good. Instead our jackass cowboy President said "you're either with us or with the terrorists" and went all Yosemite Sam across Iraq. We'll put a boot in yer ass 'cause it's the American way. We're insulated as a culture (despite our bragging about our guns and revolutionary spirit, it's mostly bravado) and depressingly immature. It's no wonder our police are the way they are.

eru 4y ago

Armed forces are a pretty big deal in Finland and Switzerland as well as far as I can tell. South Korea probably, too. For the German situation in regards to sport and the military, see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsoldat https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsoldat (You might need Google Translate or so, if you don't speak German.)

another2another 4y ago
>and Switzerland as well as far as I can tell. Where on earth did you get that from? Armed forces are definitely not a big deal, in fact there's hardly any mention of them in public discourse, no parades or events involving the military, you hardly see them except occasionally you'll see soldiers going to their training on weekends on the train since Switzerland has national service. There's also very little jingoism or mention of historical military activities. Really, hardly at all. And that's a good thing, and as far as I can tell that's how the Swiss like it.
jounker 4y ago
I’m an American. I lived in Switzerland. There is no glorification of the military. It’s a job that people have to do. It’s less, “I proudly serve my country,” and much more, “Aw crap. It’s time for my annual marksmanship certification.”

klibertp 4y ago

Well, the popular and deep support for armed forces did not, by and large, make Europe any better off. On the contrary, last time we glorified armed forces it led to some 80 million dead and unimaginable destruction across the continent (and world). On the other hand, the US seems to have been served well by their army, so it's not strange for normal people to support soldiers and such.

krapp 4y ago
The US was in the unique situation of never having to face existential consequences for its nationalism and militarism the way the rest of the world did after World War 2, having escaped the war relatively unscathed. We see ourselves as Superman punching Hitler, instead of the middleman who bought up every Nazi and Japanese war criminal we could get our hands on, and parleyed the world's losses into superpower status through loans and asserting military and business hegemony. Unfortunately the fetish for violence in American culture is baked into the core of American identity and has been since the Second Amendment and the archetype of the armed American revolutionary patriot was seared into the zeitgeist. Americans love Dirty Harry and Jack Bauer and the gritty, no-nonsense cowboy who shoots first and asks questions never. I mean, just look at our response to 9/11. That should have been an opportunity to reflect on the policies that brought that kind of retribution about, and a chance to reconsider our assumptions about the world and our effect on it. Or at least to bring the world together under a rare common bond of global unity and do something good. Instead our jackass cowboy President said "you're either with us or with the terrorists" and went all Yosemite Sam across Iraq. We'll put a boot in yer ass 'cause it's the American way. We're insulated as a culture (despite our bragging about our guns and revolutionary spirit, it's mostly bravado) and depressingly immature. It's no wonder our police are the way they are.