4 ms·

> Because there are no good cops? Seriously, this is the mother of all generalizations.

bheadmaster 4y ago
Here's the grandmother: There are no good people with power. Also known as, "power corrupts". You give a person power without consequences, you turn them into a ticking time bomb, and the timer determines when will they turn into a self-serving piece of shit.
- thisisabore 4y ago
  That's the thing, the statement "there are no good cops" doesn't mean that no individual person that is police can be an ok person, it means that police as an institution will make people bad. My understanding is that it should be seen more as the starrtng point of a reflexion about the police (what should we therefore do?) rather than a conclusion.
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    I see it as a fundamental problem of humanity - we cannot trust people to do "good" by themselves, because doing "good" often requires giving up personal benefits that would be gained from doing "bad". The best example I know is videogames. Ever see anyone play GTA without shooting everyone on the street? In GTA, there are no real consequences for your actions, so our true nature comes out. I imagine that, in the real world, when a person has power without consequences, it starts feeling like a game of GTA to them after a while - not exercising the power available just feels "lame". > what should we therefore do? Restrict power, increase accountability. The only way to train (human) animals is through punishment when they piss on the rug.
    - swayvil 4y ago
      Voting, lying, moderating. That's certainly a more immediately relevant answer. Here in social media land. They are the corrupting powers and avenues of expression for this bad human nature, here.
    - mafuy 4y ago
      > Ever see anyone play GTA without shooting everyone on the street? I disagree. The game is built to favor this behavior. If you wanted to, say, make a living in the game by selling pancakes, the scenario would not be supported to the same degree (in this case: not at all). Look at flight simulators. Most people try to fly properly. Occasionally, people explore "what if" scenarios. But most certainly most people do not use it to practice or experience another 9/11.
      - joseda-hg 4y ago
        I don't know how comparable the examples are Ignorig the what if's The "enjoyment" of playing a FlightSim is trying to be as much of a competent pilot as you can, in GTA you derive said enjoyment by acting as someone with complete disregard for consequences. (Both steer you to something, still, because no consequences people try the alternatives, like everyones short lived attempt to follow laws in GTA) People intentionally torturing the Sims seems a lot more appropiate, and comparably common Removing consequence from action means that the only thing stopping you is your own morality, which is dangerous (Would you rather destroy the life of a random no one you will never see, or that of a lifelong colleague/partner/friend?)
  - bambax 4y ago
    > That's the thing, the statement "there are no good cops" doesn't mean that no individual person that is police can be an ok person, it means that police as an institution will make people bad. Yes, that's exactly what I meant -- thank you.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Power does corrupt. But more than that, it attracts authoritarians who live for power abuse. And the top authoritarians are the ones who hire low-status authoritarian thugs and give them a uniform and (more or less) free reign to bully, abuse, and intimidate. Police abuse starts at the top of the culture, not the bottom. Replacing the people on the ground will do nothing without also replacing the people who use police power for their own ends. That won't happen without political and economic change. A traditional redistribution of wealth and power won't be enough. The problem needs a new political system with checks and balances that provide strong immunity to authoritarian capture by narcissists and sociopaths of all labels and persuasions.

Here's the grandmother: There are no good people with power. Also known as, "power corrupts". You give a person power without consequences, you turn them into a ticking time bomb, and the timer determines when will they turn into a self-serving piece of shit.

thisisabore 4y ago
That's the thing, the statement "there are no good cops" doesn't mean that no individual person that is police can be an ok person, it means that police as an institution will make people bad. My understanding is that it should be seen more as the starrtng point of a reflexion about the police (what should we therefore do?) rather than a conclusion.
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  I see it as a fundamental problem of humanity - we cannot trust people to do "good" by themselves, because doing "good" often requires giving up personal benefits that would be gained from doing "bad". The best example I know is videogames. Ever see anyone play GTA without shooting everyone on the street? In GTA, there are no real consequences for your actions, so our true nature comes out. I imagine that, in the real world, when a person has power without consequences, it starts feeling like a game of GTA to them after a while - not exercising the power available just feels "lame". > what should we therefore do? Restrict power, increase accountability. The only way to train (human) animals is through punishment when they piss on the rug.
  - swayvil 4y ago
    Voting, lying, moderating. That's certainly a more immediately relevant answer. Here in social media land. They are the corrupting powers and avenues of expression for this bad human nature, here.
  - mafuy 4y ago
    > Ever see anyone play GTA without shooting everyone on the street? I disagree. The game is built to favor this behavior. If you wanted to, say, make a living in the game by selling pancakes, the scenario would not be supported to the same degree (in this case: not at all). Look at flight simulators. Most people try to fly properly. Occasionally, people explore "what if" scenarios. But most certainly most people do not use it to practice or experience another 9/11.
    - joseda-hg 4y ago
      I don't know how comparable the examples are Ignorig the what if's The "enjoyment" of playing a FlightSim is trying to be as much of a competent pilot as you can, in GTA you derive said enjoyment by acting as someone with complete disregard for consequences. (Both steer you to something, still, because no consequences people try the alternatives, like everyones short lived attempt to follow laws in GTA) People intentionally torturing the Sims seems a lot more appropiate, and comparably common Removing consequence from action means that the only thing stopping you is your own morality, which is dangerous (Would you rather destroy the life of a random no one you will never see, or that of a lifelong colleague/partner/friend?)
- bambax 4y ago
  > That's the thing, the statement "there are no good cops" doesn't mean that no individual person that is police can be an ok person, it means that police as an institution will make people bad. Yes, that's exactly what I meant -- thank you.
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
Power does corrupt. But more than that, it attracts authoritarians who live for power abuse. And the top authoritarians are the ones who hire low-status authoritarian thugs and give them a uniform and (more or less) free reign to bully, abuse, and intimidate. Police abuse starts at the top of the culture, not the bottom. Replacing the people on the ground will do nothing without also replacing the people who use police power for their own ends. That won't happen without political and economic change. A traditional redistribution of wealth and power won't be enough. The problem needs a new political system with checks and balances that provide strong immunity to authoritarian capture by narcissists and sociopaths of all labels and persuasions.