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I'll have a look at your link (I've already skimmed it but I will have a closer look) but what in particular do you have issues with?

by avazhi 4y ago

s1artibartfast 4y ago
To be frank, my main issue is that the First Amendment regulates the governmental control of free speech, and should not be confused with the cultural value of tolerating disagreeable ideas. I very much agree with the ideal of Defending the right of someone to speak a disagreeable idea, but that is not enshrined in the First Amendment. Obnoxious students shouting down I guess speaker is not a First Amendment violation. A First Amendment violation would be if the state or FBI walked into the room and silenced them. The link I provided talks about three different categories of free speech, and how they relate to law and cultural values.
- avazhi 4y ago
  I agree with you, except your points about universities. Colleges are funded by government funds - both State and Federal, and hence to that extent SHOULD be held to the same standards of free speech as government agencies. Now if Stanford doesn't receive any public monies, then you'd be correct (in that case it's just a private institution and wouldn't be bound by normal First Amendment issues). I confess though that I'm trained in Australian law, not US law, and so I'll look into this more.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Stanford is not federally or state funded. It is a independent institution and private school. Students may receive governmental subsidies for tuition, but that is common for private institutions which meet minimum requirements. The educators are not government employees, any more than a private grocery which accepts food vouchers is a governmental entity.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > It is a independent institution and private school Well then it would be useful for you to know that private schools, in California, are required by law to respect certain free speech principles. This was all in the article, if you go read it.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        California may have laws governing speech at private universities, but California law is not the same thing as the First Amendment
        stale2002 4y ago
        So then yes, even though "It is a independent institution and private school" it still is required to respect certain student free speech rights, because it is in California? > California may have laws governing speech So yes, you agree with me that they have to respect student free speech rights, as according to California law.

I'll have a look at your link (I've already skimmed it but I will have a closer look) but what in particular do you have issues with?

by avazhi 4y ago

I'll have a look at your link (I've already skimmed it but I will have a closer look) but what in particular do you have issues with?

s1artibartfast 4y ago

To be frank, my main issue is that the First Amendment regulates the governmental control of free speech, and should not be confused with the cultural value of tolerating disagreeable ideas. I very much agree with the ideal of Defending the right of someone to speak a disagreeable idea, but that is not enshrined in the First Amendment. Obnoxious students shouting down I guess speaker is not a First Amendment violation. A First Amendment violation would be if the state or FBI walked into the room and silenced them. The link I provided talks about three different categories of free speech, and how they relate to law and cultural values.

avazhi 4y ago
I agree with you, except your points about universities. Colleges are funded by government funds - both State and Federal, and hence to that extent SHOULD be held to the same standards of free speech as government agencies. Now if Stanford doesn't receive any public monies, then you'd be correct (in that case it's just a private institution and wouldn't be bound by normal First Amendment issues). I confess though that I'm trained in Australian law, not US law, and so I'll look into this more.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Stanford is not federally or state funded. It is a independent institution and private school. Students may receive governmental subsidies for tuition, but that is common for private institutions which meet minimum requirements. The educators are not government employees, any more than a private grocery which accepts food vouchers is a governmental entity.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    > It is a independent institution and private school Well then it would be useful for you to know that private schools, in California, are required by law to respect certain free speech principles. This was all in the article, if you go read it.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      California may have laws governing speech at private universities, but California law is not the same thing as the First Amendment
      - stale2002 4y ago
        So then yes, even though "It is a independent institution and private school" it still is required to respect certain student free speech rights, because it is in California? > California may have laws governing speech So yes, you agree with me that they have to respect student free speech rights, as according to California law.