8 ms·

> how garbage Siri quality is today a few notes on this - siri is incredibly underinvested. They have another team that's building some sort of search and nat

> how garbage Siri quality is today a few notes on this - siri is incredibly underinvested. They have another team that's building some sort of search and natural language processing engine, that has slowly sapped away some key headcount from the siri team. - apple doesn't get the full advantage of tons of user data from the wild. this is both a bug and a feature - the siri api model is clearly generations old, and i suspect that apple has been marshaling its resources into a big leap forward - alongside their hand tracking, ar, and hardware - apple has shipped everything required for you to point at a light /in your house/ to turn it on or off (and optionally flick). this includes software - the individual components are built and ready - the only thing missing is gluing it together There's something happening, and I think that the rumored glasses are the hardware totem.

afavour 4y ago
“Yes Siri is garbage but it doesn’t matter because Apple are probably working on a top secret new thing that will blow everyone else out of the water” You might be right but there’s no real evidence for it yet.
- mikepurvis 4y ago
  Lots of things with Apple come out of nowhere. In this case there's actually quite a bit more evidence than usual because of all the fielded, underutilized hardware that's ready to go— when it launches, it'll likely be available on millions of devices, rather than as something you have to get the latest hardware to have, as is the case when the camera or screen undergoes a drastic improvement, or there's a new feature like wireless charging or NFC payments.
- LoganDark 4y ago
  Hasn't Siri remained relatively unchanged for over a decade? I think the most recent innovation was just bringing it to Intel Macs.
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    It has had features removed.
  - PopePompus 4y ago
    Yes, it's been stagnant for so very long that I, and I suspect most users, have learned the very few things that it can do reliably, and no longer even try to do something more sophisticated. If it became more capable, it might take a long while for most users to even notice, because we have stopped hoping it will pleasantly surprise us.
  - sroussey 4y ago
    Most people didn’t notice, but dictation now runs in a hybrid mode — both on device and via server. So you get some (maybe poor) results at first (only results if offline but better than nothing) that get rewritten after a couple seconds from server. For Siri itself, I think it runs locally now.
- parker_mountain 4y ago
  >because Apple are probably working on a top secret new thing that will blow everyone else out of the water” that's a mischaracterization of what i said. what i said was that they have been clearly hiring key positions and cannibalizing the siri team for something new. that something new will likely be a major release. i also believe that the ar headset is the unifying product under which they're rallying.
  - janekm 4y ago
    You may well be right, but if so that's a huge problem for Apple as by all accounts the AR device is still many years from being ready for release and meanwhile they are in a very precarious situation with Siri... The first proper integration of a Whisper & a GPT-class LM will be a big step change, a Siri-like AI that you can actually talk to somewhat sensibly and expect it to "understand" more than pre-set phrases... Google could be in a position to release something for Android, and their are Android SoCs with neural accelerators as well (sure nothing as impressive as Apple's chips but Samsung have demonstrated a cut-down SD model on their SoC).
    - parker_mountain 4y ago
      I don't think the new siri is intrinsicly tied to the device. I think that as part of remaking siri, they're using the new platform as a rallying cry and story as to why it's important. (it's hard to justify features such as making siri spatially aware otherwise)
ngai_aku 4y ago
> apple has shipped everything required for you to point at a light /in your house/ to turn it on or off (and optionally flick). this includes software - the individual components are built and ready - the only thing missing is gluing it together Could you expand on this bit? I’m pretty deep in the Apple ecosystem, but I’m not sure what you’re referencing here
- revscat 4y ago
  Not OP, but I suspect this is a simple combination of AR and precise device location awareness. The former comes in the form of ARKit. I’m not aware of a framework for locating devices, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were one.
  - xvector 4y ago
    U1 chip triangulation solves the second part. Would require at least 3 U1-enabled devices in your home. Alternatively whole-home mapping via AR also solves this. No triangulation needed.
- parker_mountain 4y ago
  Homepods have U1 chips. They can position airtags within your house. You can put an airtag under, or adjacent to, a lamp and link it to a smart switch. Your apple watch has gesture detection (still in beta, tbf), as well as U1 and real time positioning capabilities. Everything required for apple to know not only where you are, but which way your hand is pointing, as well as where "smart devices" are in your house is already being sold and rolled out en masse to the majority of people in the ecosystem.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    $25 for an Airtag, plus say $20 for a smart switch. Plus $200 for a HomePod. To turn a single lamp on/off by pointing at it, something that nobody ever wants to do (alright, once for the cool factor). If someone wanted to overpay for useless features, they can already go for a Philips Hue. I can turn off my lamps from anywhere in the world using a $10 Tuta ZigBee bridge and a $8 LIDL light.
post-it 4y ago
It's probably not glasses. Nobody likes wearing glasses. Every attempt at making tech glasses has failed. It'll probably be the Apple Watch.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Everybody would love wearing Apple Glasses. Would probably look really cool. I remember seeing AirPods in somebody's ears for the first time. "What a dork" I thought back then. Now they're cool and everywhere.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    > Now they're cool and everywhere. One of these things is true.
    - yurishimo 4y ago
      There is a difference between the subjective and objective "cool." They've sold something like 150 million pairs of Airpods? I think that qualifies as objectively "cool."
      - FredPret 4y ago
        Another heuristic is: are the majority of attractive and young people using/buying/doing it? AirPods are cool by that measure as well.
      - smugma 4y ago
        If lots of people are doing or buying something, that’s a signal that it isn’t cool.
  - wwalexander 4y ago
    I would not love wearing them. I waste a significant amount of money on contact lenses each year for the privilege of not having to wear anything on my face.
- 4y ago
nicky0 4y ago
As an mere user this is what I had assumed. Siri has been stagnant and buggy for years; it makes sense they are working on a big replacement instead of putting resource into incremntal improvements on what seems to be a weak foundation.
pantulis 4y ago
> apple doesn't get the full advantage of tons of user data from the wild. Do you think OpenAI did? Perhaps Apple doesn't have the vast amount of data that Google has, but if OpenAI managed to have like 200 wikipedia-sized corpuses of different textual data for their English GPT models, that's certainly not out of reach of Apple.
cal85 4y ago
> apple has shipped everything required for you to point at a light /in your house/ to turn it on or off Point at it? You mean with a finger? What do you mean they've shipped everything required?

afavour 4y ago

“Yes Siri is garbage but it doesn’t matter because Apple are probably working on a top secret new thing that will blow everyone else out of the water” You might be right but there’s no real evidence for it yet.

mikepurvis 4y ago
Lots of things with Apple come out of nowhere. In this case there's actually quite a bit more evidence than usual because of all the fielded, underutilized hardware that's ready to go— when it launches, it'll likely be available on millions of devices, rather than as something you have to get the latest hardware to have, as is the case when the camera or screen undergoes a drastic improvement, or there's a new feature like wireless charging or NFC payments.
LoganDark 4y ago
Hasn't Siri remained relatively unchanged for over a decade? I think the most recent innovation was just bringing it to Intel Macs.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  It has had features removed.
- PopePompus 4y ago
  Yes, it's been stagnant for so very long that I, and I suspect most users, have learned the very few things that it can do reliably, and no longer even try to do something more sophisticated. If it became more capable, it might take a long while for most users to even notice, because we have stopped hoping it will pleasantly surprise us.
- sroussey 4y ago
  Most people didn’t notice, but dictation now runs in a hybrid mode — both on device and via server. So you get some (maybe poor) results at first (only results if offline but better than nothing) that get rewritten after a couple seconds from server. For Siri itself, I think it runs locally now.
parker_mountain 4y ago
>because Apple are probably working on a top secret new thing that will blow everyone else out of the water” that's a mischaracterization of what i said. what i said was that they have been clearly hiring key positions and cannibalizing the siri team for something new. that something new will likely be a major release. i also believe that the ar headset is the unifying product under which they're rallying.
- janekm 4y ago
  You may well be right, but if so that's a huge problem for Apple as by all accounts the AR device is still many years from being ready for release and meanwhile they are in a very precarious situation with Siri... The first proper integration of a Whisper & a GPT-class LM will be a big step change, a Siri-like AI that you can actually talk to somewhat sensibly and expect it to "understand" more than pre-set phrases... Google could be in a position to release something for Android, and their are Android SoCs with neural accelerators as well (sure nothing as impressive as Apple's chips but Samsung have demonstrated a cut-down SD model on their SoC).
  - parker_mountain 4y ago
    I don't think the new siri is intrinsicly tied to the device. I think that as part of remaking siri, they're using the new platform as a rallying cry and story as to why it's important. (it's hard to justify features such as making siri spatially aware otherwise)

ngai_aku 4y ago

> apple has shipped everything required for you to point at a light /in your house/ to turn it on or off (and optionally flick). this includes software - the individual components are built and ready - the only thing missing is gluing it together Could you expand on this bit? I’m pretty deep in the Apple ecosystem, but I’m not sure what you’re referencing here

revscat 4y ago
Not OP, but I suspect this is a simple combination of AR and precise device location awareness. The former comes in the form of ARKit. I’m not aware of a framework for locating devices, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were one.
- xvector 4y ago
  U1 chip triangulation solves the second part. Would require at least 3 U1-enabled devices in your home. Alternatively whole-home mapping via AR also solves this. No triangulation needed.
parker_mountain 4y ago
Homepods have U1 chips. They can position airtags within your house. You can put an airtag under, or adjacent to, a lamp and link it to a smart switch. Your apple watch has gesture detection (still in beta, tbf), as well as U1 and real time positioning capabilities. Everything required for apple to know not only where you are, but which way your hand is pointing, as well as where "smart devices" are in your house is already being sold and rolled out en masse to the majority of people in the ecosystem.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  $25 for an Airtag, plus say $20 for a smart switch. Plus $200 for a HomePod. To turn a single lamp on/off by pointing at it, something that nobody ever wants to do (alright, once for the cool factor). If someone wanted to overpay for useless features, they can already go for a Philips Hue. I can turn off my lamps from anywhere in the world using a $10 Tuta ZigBee bridge and a $8 LIDL light.

post-it 4y ago

It's probably not glasses. Nobody likes wearing glasses. Every attempt at making tech glasses has failed. It'll probably be the Apple Watch.

FredPret 4y ago
Everybody would love wearing Apple Glasses. Would probably look really cool. I remember seeing AirPods in somebody's ears for the first time. "What a dork" I thought back then. Now they're cool and everywhere.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  > Now they're cool and everywhere. One of these things is true.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    There is a difference between the subjective and objective "cool." They've sold something like 150 million pairs of Airpods? I think that qualifies as objectively "cool."
    - FredPret 4y ago
      Another heuristic is: are the majority of attractive and young people using/buying/doing it? AirPods are cool by that measure as well.
    - smugma 4y ago
      If lots of people are doing or buying something, that’s a signal that it isn’t cool.
- wwalexander 4y ago
  I would not love wearing them. I waste a significant amount of money on contact lenses each year for the privilege of not having to wear anything on my face.
4y ago

nicky0 4y ago

As an mere user this is what I had assumed. Siri has been stagnant and buggy for years; it makes sense they are working on a big replacement instead of putting resource into incremntal improvements on what seems to be a weak foundation.

pantulis 4y ago

> apple doesn't get the full advantage of tons of user data from the wild. Do you think OpenAI did? Perhaps Apple doesn't have the vast amount of data that Google has, but if OpenAI managed to have like 200 wikipedia-sized corpuses of different textual data for their English GPT models, that's certainly not out of reach of Apple.

cal85 4y ago

> apple has shipped everything required for you to point at a light /in your house/ to turn it on or off Point at it? You mean with a finger? What do you mean they've shipped everything required?