4 ms·

Socrates did not originate the word, his usage is the most famous we have historically available. The Greeks believed in good spirits helping people ("Eudaemon

by sn41 4y ago

Socrates did not originate the word, his usage is the most famous we have historically available. The Greeks believed in good spirits helping people ("Eudaemon") and evil spirits for darker purposes ("cacodaemon")[1]. It was believed that people had these spirits helping or harming them as the case may be. The same goes for "genius", a spirit from whom we get the words genie as well as "Djinn". The common usage was that (quoted by Elizabeth Gilbert) a great person "had a genius", as in, a spirit helping them, as opposed to "is a genius", which is a later usage. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacodemon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacodemon this is also the origin of the "Cacodemon" in Doom.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
> The same goes for "genius", a spirit from whom we get the words genie as well as "Djinn". Genie does come from genius, but djinn is an unrelated Arabic word.
- NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
  > djinn is an unrelated Arabic word. [citation needed] Various dictionaries disagree vehemently with you. (Also, djinn is not even an Arabic word. It's a romanized word.) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genie https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genie
  - basilgohar 4y ago
    Linked from that same page is a citation [0] that djinn is, in fact, or Arabic origin. Where do you get that it's a romanized word? Unless you mean romanized in the sense that it's spelled using the latin alphabet, but that's overly pedantic even by HN standards. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jinni https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jinni
    - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
      > but that's overly pedantic even by HN standards. Thank you! I'm overly flattered. (Also, that is always what linguists mean when we write "romanized", or as the Japanese say, rōmaji.)
  - shagie 4y ago
    This is interesting and... it appears to be complicated. And the "related" appears to be ancient rather than a loan word from Arabic to French brought over as part of Arabian Nights. There's a word in latin for genius (genii or geni) which is described as: the deity or guardian spirit of a person, place, etc. https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/we-take-a-look-at-the-etymology-behind-the-word-genius/ https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/we-take-a... > The idea of a ‘genius’ originated in ancient Rome. The Romans believed that all people had a guiding spirit that attended them throughout their lives. Because this spirit was born with the person it was called a ‘genius’ (from the Latin verb gignere meaning ‘to give birth or bring forth’ – which also happens to be the root of our word ‘generate’). A person’s ‘genius’ dictated their unique personality and disposition. So if a person had an outstanding talent or ability, it was believed that this was due to their ‘genius’. From here it was a natural step for the word ‘genius’ to be used not only of the spirit that inspired a talent but also of the talent itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology) > In Roman religion, the genius (Latin: [ˈɡɛnɪ.ʊs]; plural geniī) is the individual instance of a general divine nature that is present in every individual person, place, or thing.[1] Much like a guardian angel, the genius would follow each man from the hour of his birth until the day he died.[2] For women, it was the Juno spirit that would accompany each of them. > Each individual place had a genius (genius loci) and so did powerful objects, such as volcanoes. The concept extended to some specifics: the genius of the theatre, of vineyards, and of festivals, which made performances successful, grapes grow, and celebrations succeed, respectively. It was extremely important in the Roman mind to propitiate the appropriate genii for the major undertakings and events of their lives. It is from that word that French gets genie. The classical pronunciation is [ˈɡɛniʊs̠] If we go to classical Syriac the word ܓܢܝܐ ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ܓܢܝܐ#Aramaic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ܓܢܝܐ#Aramaic ) is also described as a place for a worship of idols, a spirit, or a genius loci. The pronunciation for the singular is [ɡɛnjɑ] The arabic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جني#Arabic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جني#Arabic is described as being borrowed from the Syriac and is pronounced /d͡ʒin.nijj/ The 'd' and 'g' sounds are similar. The Indo-European language splits at about 2500 BC into Italic, Indo-Iraian (which leads to Sanskrit), and Germanic. Syriac is from the Semitic languages which split from the Afro-Asiastic branch. Afro-Asiatic and Eurasian have a common ancestor about 10,000 BC. (above dates and tree from https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-language-tree-was-constructed-by-comparison-of-words-and-grammar-of-the-ancient_fig1_332869101 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-language-tree-was-co... ) This is a really old word that appears to have a common root and got borrowed back into French by accident... but that it got borrowed back by accident is because of its really old common ancestor.
jamesfinlayson 4y ago
> this is also the origin of the "Cacodemon" in Doom That was my first thought as soon as I read your post. I just assumed the guys at id picked a cool sounding name for the enemy.
xhevahir 4y ago
There's a book, The Greeks and the Irrational, that suggests the idea of a soul or self separate from the body was a shamanistic idea that came to Greece via Scythian or Thracian influence. Empedocles seems to have been the first Greek philosopher to have used the word "daemon" in this sense.

by sn41 4y ago

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> The same goes for "genius", a spirit from whom we get the words genie as well as "Djinn". Genie does come from genius, but djinn is an unrelated Arabic word.

NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
> djinn is an unrelated Arabic word. [citation needed] Various dictionaries disagree vehemently with you. (Also, djinn is not even an Arabic word. It's a romanized word.) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genie https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genie
- basilgohar 4y ago
  Linked from that same page is a citation [0] that djinn is, in fact, or Arabic origin. Where do you get that it's a romanized word? Unless you mean romanized in the sense that it's spelled using the latin alphabet, but that's overly pedantic even by HN standards. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jinni https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jinni
  - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
    > but that's overly pedantic even by HN standards. Thank you! I'm overly flattered. (Also, that is always what linguists mean when we write "romanized", or as the Japanese say, rōmaji.)
- shagie 4y ago
  This is interesting and... it appears to be complicated. And the "related" appears to be ancient rather than a loan word from Arabic to French brought over as part of Arabian Nights. There's a word in latin for genius (genii or geni) which is described as: the deity or guardian spirit of a person, place, etc. https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/we-take-a-look-at-the-etymology-behind-the-word-genius/ https://blog.collinsdictionary.com/language-lovers/we-take-a... > The idea of a ‘genius’ originated in ancient Rome. The Romans believed that all people had a guiding spirit that attended them throughout their lives. Because this spirit was born with the person it was called a ‘genius’ (from the Latin verb gignere meaning ‘to give birth or bring forth’ – which also happens to be the root of our word ‘generate’). A person’s ‘genius’ dictated their unique personality and disposition. So if a person had an outstanding talent or ability, it was believed that this was due to their ‘genius’. From here it was a natural step for the word ‘genius’ to be used not only of the spirit that inspired a talent but also of the talent itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_(mythology) > In Roman religion, the genius (Latin: [ˈɡɛnɪ.ʊs]; plural geniī) is the individual instance of a general divine nature that is present in every individual person, place, or thing.[1] Much like a guardian angel, the genius would follow each man from the hour of his birth until the day he died.[2] For women, it was the Juno spirit that would accompany each of them. > Each individual place had a genius (genius loci) and so did powerful objects, such as volcanoes. The concept extended to some specifics: the genius of the theatre, of vineyards, and of festivals, which made performances successful, grapes grow, and celebrations succeed, respectively. It was extremely important in the Roman mind to propitiate the appropriate genii for the major undertakings and events of their lives. It is from that word that French gets genie. The classical pronunciation is [ˈɡɛniʊs̠] If we go to classical Syriac the word ܓܢܝܐ ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ܓܢܝܐ#Aramaic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ܓܢܝܐ#Aramaic ) is also described as a place for a worship of idols, a spirit, or a genius loci. The pronunciation for the singular is [ɡɛnjɑ] The arabic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جني#Arabic https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جني#Arabic is described as being borrowed from the Syriac and is pronounced /d͡ʒin.nijj/ The 'd' and 'g' sounds are similar. The Indo-European language splits at about 2500 BC into Italic, Indo-Iraian (which leads to Sanskrit), and Germanic. Syriac is from the Semitic languages which split from the Afro-Asiastic branch. Afro-Asiatic and Eurasian have a common ancestor about 10,000 BC. (above dates and tree from https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-language-tree-was-constructed-by-comparison-of-words-and-grammar-of-the-ancient_fig1_332869101 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-language-tree-was-co... ) This is a really old word that appears to have a common root and got borrowed back into French by accident... but that it got borrowed back by accident is because of its really old common ancestor.

jamesfinlayson 4y ago

> this is also the origin of the "Cacodemon" in Doom That was my first thought as soon as I read your post. I just assumed the guys at id picked a cool sounding name for the enemy.

xhevahir 4y ago

There's a book, The Greeks and the Irrational, that suggests the idea of a soul or self separate from the body was a shamanistic idea that came to Greece via Scythian or Thracian influence. Empedocles seems to have been the first Greek philosopher to have used the word "daemon" in this sense.