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There's nowhere else to go if you do not subscribe to left wing orthodoxy. Even centrists and center-left nowadays aren't ideologically pure enough, and thus al

There's nowhere else to go if you do not subscribe to left wing orthodoxy. Even centrists and center-left nowadays aren't ideologically pure enough, and thus also "right-wing". Recently a feminist on Twitter expressed this problem quite well. She was pushing back against the toxic parts of radical feminism which she considered counter productive. But in doing so, got a lot of heat from the radicals. She's very much left-wing, progressive, and reasonable. The side effect of her pushing back against left-wing extremism is that she gained a lot of attention from the right wing. Actual right wing, not "anybody that slightly disagrees". She didn't ask for that nor does she want to chose between these two extremes, but that's the dynamic right now.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
That sounds like an interesting dynamic but not really relevant to bari weiss consistently endorsing right wing positions and figures and so being accurately described as a rightwing attention seeker, which was the original topic. I don't know anything about the specific situation you're alluding to so can't responsibly comment. But "the leftists made me turn to the right" has been an excuse as long as I can remember and it's a thin one. Radicals simply aren't responsible for the actions their opponents choose to take.
- dahwolf 4y ago
  I suppose it depends on the position in question. It's not "leftists made me turn right" in all cases, it's also formerly progressive points (equality instead of equity, freedom of speech, science over safetyism) shifting into being seen as right-wing positions. The position didn't change, the label did. As to whether this is the case with Weiss, supposedly not. I believe you. Radicals may not be responsible for the actions of opponents, but for sure they are accountable. Or at the very least deal with the predictable back-lash.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    > it's also formerly progressive points shifting into being seen as right-wing positions. This is just the nature of these things. They aren't fixed. They're descriptions of views of different groups of people at a certain time, and change with time. My childhood overlapped with the aftermath and social remnants of jim crow. Back then, there, a moderate position was that integration was inevitable and necessary for technical constitutional law reasons and to prevent wider upheaval, but that it should not have been welcomed and was allowed to progress too quickly. Only a radical leftist would hold that black and white people were fundamentally equal and the law and social norms must be immediately brought to respect that. Within my memory, a centrist position was that gay men should be medically treated for that "disorder" rather than pursued criminally for it. A radical leftist position was that they should be allowed to openly participate as full members of society without restriction. You're right that what is considered left or right changes. Center positions do often become far right positions with time. Sorry lol. It still isn't the fault of leftists.
    - dahwolf 4y ago
      I'd say you're cherry picking the exact examples where a radically left position ultimately became mainstream. That strongly implies that radical left positions are correct, fruitful and destined to become the norm if only given enough time. In reality it's much more of a mixed bag. Some ideas are impractical, downright destructive or achieve the exact opposite. Unappealing unhinged ideas that alienate large groups and act as the perfect recruitment tool for the right wing? Absolutely the fault of leftists. But agree to disagree, this isn't the place.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

That sounds like an interesting dynamic but not really relevant to bari weiss consistently endorsing right wing positions and figures and so being accurately described as a rightwing attention seeker, which was the original topic. I don't know anything about the specific situation you're alluding to so can't responsibly comment. But "the leftists made me turn to the right" has been an excuse as long as I can remember and it's a thin one. Radicals simply aren't responsible for the actions their opponents choose to take.

dahwolf 4y ago
I suppose it depends on the position in question. It's not "leftists made me turn right" in all cases, it's also formerly progressive points (equality instead of equity, freedom of speech, science over safetyism) shifting into being seen as right-wing positions. The position didn't change, the label did. As to whether this is the case with Weiss, supposedly not. I believe you. Radicals may not be responsible for the actions of opponents, but for sure they are accountable. Or at the very least deal with the predictable back-lash.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  > it's also formerly progressive points shifting into being seen as right-wing positions. This is just the nature of these things. They aren't fixed. They're descriptions of views of different groups of people at a certain time, and change with time. My childhood overlapped with the aftermath and social remnants of jim crow. Back then, there, a moderate position was that integration was inevitable and necessary for technical constitutional law reasons and to prevent wider upheaval, but that it should not have been welcomed and was allowed to progress too quickly. Only a radical leftist would hold that black and white people were fundamentally equal and the law and social norms must be immediately brought to respect that. Within my memory, a centrist position was that gay men should be medically treated for that "disorder" rather than pursued criminally for it. A radical leftist position was that they should be allowed to openly participate as full members of society without restriction. You're right that what is considered left or right changes. Center positions do often become far right positions with time. Sorry lol. It still isn't the fault of leftists.
  - dahwolf 4y ago
    I'd say you're cherry picking the exact examples where a radically left position ultimately became mainstream. That strongly implies that radical left positions are correct, fruitful and destined to become the norm if only given enough time. In reality it's much more of a mixed bag. Some ideas are impractical, downright destructive or achieve the exact opposite. Unappealing unhinged ideas that alienate large groups and act as the perfect recruitment tool for the right wing? Absolutely the fault of leftists. But agree to disagree, this isn't the place.