3 ms·

Sigh. What an idiot (no offense). Why tell the world you got this from the comments? Now every damn researcher is going to strip them out and for those of us wh

Sigh. What an idiot (no offense). Why tell the world you got this from the comments? Now every damn researcher is going to strip them out and for those of us who knew to look for them, take away our fun. Never. Ever. Reveal your sources.

albertzeyer 4y ago
This is already known. Google and DeepMind usually strip the comments out.
- gwern 4y ago
  Do they? I've read DM papers with the comments in the sources... but maybe they institutionalized a stripping phase.
  - albertzeyer 4y ago
    Maybe older ones? But I'm also not sure how consistent they are. Google and DM are big. I don't really know their policies on publishing. Maybe not every group enforces it.
deely3 4y ago
Correct me if Im wrong, but.. are you defending closed source and restriction of information?
- Tostino 4y ago
  That's not at all how I read that comment... more like "through a side channel, we found this out" rather than spelling out exactly where they found it.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  It’s the difference between going into a town square and yelling “look everyone, I found a treasure map!” And going on a treasure hunt. They found comments that were commented out for a reason. These commented out sections aren’t a good look for the author. Usually commented out sections are either funny, notes, or provide some extra context. He could have attempted to share this with someone in the industry of sharing information (like a reporter) who could validate it, and ask Microsoft for a comment — who will now be on the defensive instead of (potentially) forthcoming with more context about why those sections were commented out. This is a pretty fucked way of doing this.
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    > and ask Microsoft for a comment Doesn't this sort of invalidate your point? Microsoft is going to know they accidentally leaked their comments and start stripping them. It's not possible to perform journalism here without revealing where you got the information you're reporting. Seriously, how do you write this story without making it obvious that your big scoop is the comments from the paper?
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      The point is not to frame the comments as a mistake and give the author a fair chance.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      The issue is that the twitter thread makes it out that leaving comments is “amateur” or “wrong” without giving the author a fair chance to rebut them. Anyone seeing this is going to start stripping their comments so they don’t get framed this way.
- derefr 4y ago
  They're defending "polite open secrets" — things that are only spread by word-of-mouth among friends, because as soon as a centralized broadcast source reports them, they become so over-exploited that they cease to usefully exist.
zamnos 4y ago
It may shock you to hear, but some people go onto our Internet, and just tell lies! Preposterous, I know. But that means that only really works if you're a reporter. If you're some rando on twitter, random unverified claims on twitter are hearsay and rumor. Whats the use of some Twitter account going "Microsoft didn't know GPT-4 was multi-modal and could do images as well as text"? Or "Even Microsoft doesn't know how expensive it was to train GPT-4"? If you're seeking fame beyond a closed Slack group, you're gonna need to back up your claims.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  Yeah, that’s the problem. Fame seekers. If the twitterer were interested in actually sharing the info, they’d reach out to a reporter.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - DANmode 4y ago
    No reporter has ever run a fake or misleading story with source attributed only to "anonymous sources close to the matter" — right?
dylan604 4y ago
whatever you do, do NOT use View Source on a web page or you'll place yourself in legal jeopardy (in certain jurisdictions)
- smcin 4y ago
  ? Do you only mean HTML  comment tag, or JS/CSS code, or both? Do you merely mean reading them (like you said), or copying them, which is something different? Which legal jeopardy? Citation needed. I searched to try to decipher your comment but couldn't.
  - arthurcolle 4y ago
    https://www.macobserver.com/news/missouri-backs-away-view-source/ https://www.macobserver.com/news/missouri-backs-away-view-so... a recent story, there have been a couple
    - smcin 4y ago
      But that didn't substantiate what you claimed. The journalist didn't just read the HTML (which contained 100,000 SSNs which were publicly exposed by Missouri DESE), he reported the leak, and gave them time to fix it before publishing. Missouri Governor Mike Parson and Cole County Prosecutor Locke Thompson (an elected prosecutor, in a reelection year [0]) trying to label a bona-fide journalist as a "hacker" were bringing ridiculous charges to try to deflect from the obvious embarrassment, instead of dealing with whatever MI state agency/ies or contractor was responsible, and had never QA'ed their webpages. Coming back to your comment, the issue was not about reading the HTML(/JS/CSS). Can you provide me a single citation where that was the issue? (Obviously, there's a separate issue about "How do you responsibly make a disclosure when you find a leak of private information in a webpage?") [0] https://www.newstribune.com/news/2022/feb/23/thompson-files-for-re-election-as-prosecutor/ https://www.newstribune.com/news/2022/feb/23/thompson-files-...
- DANmode 4y ago
  Any examples, for sake of discussion? Who has been hurt by this in court, where and when?

albertzeyer 4y ago

This is already known. Google and DeepMind usually strip the comments out.

gwern 4y ago
Do they? I've read DM papers with the comments in the sources... but maybe they institutionalized a stripping phase.
- albertzeyer 4y ago
  Maybe older ones? But I'm also not sure how consistent they are. Google and DM are big. I don't really know their policies on publishing. Maybe not every group enforces it.

deely3 4y ago

Correct me if Im wrong, but.. are you defending closed source and restriction of information?

Tostino 4y ago
That's not at all how I read that comment... more like "through a side channel, we found this out" rather than spelling out exactly where they found it.
withinboredom 4y ago
It’s the difference between going into a town square and yelling “look everyone, I found a treasure map!” And going on a treasure hunt. They found comments that were commented out for a reason. These commented out sections aren’t a good look for the author. Usually commented out sections are either funny, notes, or provide some extra context. He could have attempted to share this with someone in the industry of sharing information (like a reporter) who could validate it, and ask Microsoft for a comment — who will now be on the defensive instead of (potentially) forthcoming with more context about why those sections were commented out. This is a pretty fucked way of doing this.
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  > and ask Microsoft for a comment Doesn't this sort of invalidate your point? Microsoft is going to know they accidentally leaked their comments and start stripping them. It's not possible to perform journalism here without revealing where you got the information you're reporting. Seriously, how do you write this story without making it obvious that your big scoop is the comments from the paper?
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    The point is not to frame the comments as a mistake and give the author a fair chance.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    The issue is that the twitter thread makes it out that leaving comments is “amateur” or “wrong” without giving the author a fair chance to rebut them. Anyone seeing this is going to start stripping their comments so they don’t get framed this way.
derefr 4y ago
They're defending "polite open secrets" — things that are only spread by word-of-mouth among friends, because as soon as a centralized broadcast source reports them, they become so over-exploited that they cease to usefully exist.

zamnos 4y ago

It may shock you to hear, but some people go onto our Internet, and just tell lies! Preposterous, I know. But that means that only really works if you're a reporter. If you're some rando on twitter, random unverified claims on twitter are hearsay and rumor. Whats the use of some Twitter account going "Microsoft didn't know GPT-4 was multi-modal and could do images as well as text"? Or "Even Microsoft doesn't know how expensive it was to train GPT-4"? If you're seeking fame beyond a closed Slack group, you're gonna need to back up your claims.

withinboredom 4y ago
Yeah, that’s the problem. Fame seekers. If the twitterer were interested in actually sharing the info, they’d reach out to a reporter.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DANmode 4y ago
  No reporter has ever run a fake or misleading story with source attributed only to "anonymous sources close to the matter" — right?

dylan604 4y ago

whatever you do, do NOT use View Source on a web page or you'll place yourself in legal jeopardy (in certain jurisdictions)

smcin 4y ago
? Do you only mean HTML  comment tag, or JS/CSS code, or both? Do you merely mean reading them (like you said), or copying them, which is something different? Which legal jeopardy? Citation needed. I searched to try to decipher your comment but couldn't.
- arthurcolle 4y ago
  https://www.macobserver.com/news/missouri-backs-away-view-source/ https://www.macobserver.com/news/missouri-backs-away-view-so... a recent story, there have been a couple
  - smcin 4y ago
    But that didn't substantiate what you claimed. The journalist didn't just read the HTML (which contained 100,000 SSNs which were publicly exposed by Missouri DESE), he reported the leak, and gave them time to fix it before publishing. Missouri Governor Mike Parson and Cole County Prosecutor Locke Thompson (an elected prosecutor, in a reelection year [0]) trying to label a bona-fide journalist as a "hacker" were bringing ridiculous charges to try to deflect from the obvious embarrassment, instead of dealing with whatever MI state agency/ies or contractor was responsible, and had never QA'ed their webpages. Coming back to your comment, the issue was not about reading the HTML(/JS/CSS). Can you provide me a single citation where that was the issue? (Obviously, there's a separate issue about "How do you responsibly make a disclosure when you find a leak of private information in a webpage?") [0] https://www.newstribune.com/news/2022/feb/23/thompson-files-for-re-election-as-prosecutor/ https://www.newstribune.com/news/2022/feb/23/thompson-files-...
DANmode 4y ago
Any examples, for sake of discussion? Who has been hurt by this in court, where and when?