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synthesizing this article with one from history.com [1], it seems accurate to say the modern pizza was invented by italy but popularized by america. key passag

synthesizing this article with one from history.com [1], it seems accurate to say the modern pizza was invented by italy but popularized by america. key passage from history.com === Queen Margherita’s blessing could have been the start of an Italy-wide pizza craze. But pizza would remain little known in Italy beyond Naples’ borders until the 1940s. An ocean away, though, immigrants to the United States from Naples were replicating their trusty, crusty pizzas in New York and other American cities, including Trenton, New Haven, Boston, Chicago and St. Louis. The Neapolitans were coming for factory jobs, as did millions of Europeans in the late 19th and early 20th centuries; they weren’t seeking to make a culinary statement. But relatively quickly, the flavors and aromas of pizza began to intrigue non-Neapolitans and non-Italians. === [1] https://www.history.com/news/a-slice-of-history-pizza-through-the-ages https://www.history.com/news/a-slice-of-history-pizza-throug...

fsckboy 4y ago
I've had pizza in italy, it's very much each person orders their own and eats it with a knife and fork, it's a restaurant, experience. I think this meshes with something I've read, that there's an additional factor in the American links in these food chains, in that America into the 20th century was simultaneously "inventing" the trend toward portable foods, eating on the go, simple lunches. Many europeans even today take 2 hours for sitdown lunch (with sometimes 1/2 of that for a nap). The hot dog, the hamburger, the sandwich, etc. were not distinctly American, but eating them for lunch was. In the US the "work more and strive" culture looked for foods that were all-in-one, like slices of pizza, and the consumers were from a mix of origins so there was much less of a "it's not done this way" culture to fight against.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  Italy has its share of fast food as well and pizza can be fast also. The famous Italian espresso was adopted by business trying to make and sell coffees faster. It’s a big country and 60 million people means a lot of ways to live in it.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    i'm not saying Italy doesn't have fast food, or that food trends around the world don't influence each other, I'm saying at the time these questions were raised about "is pizza American or Italian?", fast food was an American export in the same way pasta was imported from Italy. The famous Italian Slow Food movement is explicitly making that claim.
  - fsckboy 4y ago
    >make and sell coffees faster i read that "espresso" actually means "made one at a time expressly for you" rather than "made at an express pace", but wiktionary has it as meaning "squeezed out" the french baguette though is a modern invention designed to require less time to prepare because labor regulations cut baker's hours.
    - bazoom42 4y ago
      Espresso refers to how pressure is used to force water through ground coffee.
  - atchoo 4y ago
    Espresso was first known as crema coffee. It was a sensation that people queued for rather than a mundane efficiency improvement or "fast foodification" of an existing product. The crema and intense flavour made it special. I think it would be slower to prepare than pre-espresso cafes that batch brewed with multiple samovars.

fsckboy 4y ago

I've had pizza in italy, it's very much each person orders their own and eats it with a knife and fork, it's a restaurant, experience. I think this meshes with something I've read, that there's an additional factor in the American links in these food chains, in that America into the 20th century was simultaneously "inventing" the trend toward portable foods, eating on the go, simple lunches. Many europeans even today take 2 hours for sitdown lunch (with sometimes 1/2 of that for a nap). The hot dog, the hamburger, the sandwich, etc. were not distinctly American, but eating them for lunch was. In the US the "work more and strive" culture looked for foods that were all-in-one, like slices of pizza, and the consumers were from a mix of origins so there was much less of a "it's not done this way" culture to fight against.

dougmwne 4y ago
Italy has its share of fast food as well and pizza can be fast also. The famous Italian espresso was adopted by business trying to make and sell coffees faster. It’s a big country and 60 million people means a lot of ways to live in it.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  i'm not saying Italy doesn't have fast food, or that food trends around the world don't influence each other, I'm saying at the time these questions were raised about "is pizza American or Italian?", fast food was an American export in the same way pasta was imported from Italy. The famous Italian Slow Food movement is explicitly making that claim.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  >make and sell coffees faster i read that "espresso" actually means "made one at a time expressly for you" rather than "made at an express pace", but wiktionary has it as meaning "squeezed out" the french baguette though is a modern invention designed to require less time to prepare because labor regulations cut baker's hours.
  - bazoom42 4y ago
    Espresso refers to how pressure is used to force water through ground coffee.
- atchoo 4y ago
  Espresso was first known as crema coffee. It was a sensation that people queued for rather than a mundane efficiency improvement or "fast foodification" of an existing product. The crema and intense flavour made it special. I think it would be slower to prepare than pre-espresso cafes that batch brewed with multiple samovars.