5 ms·

Of course. Except the books being removed from school libraries are more like "Gender Queer", which includes a page showing two minors giving a blowjob and does

Of course. Except the books being removed from school libraries are more like "Gender Queer", which includes a page showing two minors giving a blowjob and doesn't cover anything. Why do you think minors need hardcore porn in the libraries so badly?

Eumenes 4y ago
this
huimang 4y ago
Any reasonable person can agree with literal porn being banned. What percentage, exactly, is porn out of all the books being banned? The thing is that LGBT+ content tends to be conflated with sexual content. We both know that the vast majority of these books aren't banned because they're obscene. They're being banned because people don't want any mention of LGBT+ people or topics, with flimsy excuses.
- kelipso 4y ago
  > We both know that the vast majority of these books aren't banned because people don't want any mention of LGBT+ people or topics. They're being banned because they contain obscene sexually explicit material in them. Seems just as reasonable... So no, not clear at all.
a_shovel 4y ago
The fundamental dishonesty of these book bans is conflating books with sexual content with "hardcore pornography". These bans are happening in high school. Be honest with yourself and admit what you already know: High schoolers are horny. Restricting them from books that discuss sexuality in a realistic way, combined with "abstinence only" sex education still common in these places, makes it more likely that their first exposure with sexual media is actual hardcore pornography, and I don't feel like I need to explain to you why that's bad.
- taxyz 4y ago
  What’s your limiting principle here? Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? They’re less sexually explicit than drawings of two underage kids blowing each other. Are the straight kids not horny? Should there also be straight porn in schools? You can’t just drop sexually explicit images in a book then cry afoul when parents and taxpayers don’t want it in their public schools. They didn’t allow hustler and playboy and they’re trying to not allow this. They have a pretty consistent standard unlike the groups that advocate for such material to be made available to kids and teens.
  - antifa 4y ago
    > Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such a blatently dishonest comparison?
    - taxyz 4y ago
      Yeah nice try, buddy. If I post the blowjob scene from Gender Queer here u/dang is going to ban my account, but you’re free to google it and say whether or not it’s more explicit than a woman baring her breast. While we’re at it, how un-feminist and objectifying to imply that a woman’s body should be overly sexualized. Isn’t treating men’s and women’s nipples differently how we train kids to objectify women? If anything we need more Playboy in schools to destigmatize a women’s bare body. #FreeTheNipple
      - a_shovel 4y ago
        Yes, a blowjob is more explicit than a bare breast. This is not relevant to the topic currently being discussed, which is about how dishonest it is to compare a depiction of a sex act in a memoir about coming to terms with one's own identity and sexuality with pornography.
        taxyz 4y ago
        You’re hiding behind it being a memoir as if that’s a meaningful distinction or somehow the interest in discovering identity outweighs the harm in having sexually explicit material in schools. If Riley Reid put out a graphic memoir about tearing down taboos in sex and confronting “slut shaming” you wouldn’t advocate for it to be in schools. If you’re trying to claim I’m making some sort of false analogy or moral equivalency then you should try to answer my original question: what is the limiting principle? Because if it’s as weak as “it’s a memoir that’s about discovering identity” it’s not only a weak argument that few would agree with but it opens the door to a lot of other stuff that you’re already trying to rule out. What if Playboy helps some boys discover their straight identity? Is that not worth discovering? Some young girls might find Playboy helpful in discovering their lesbian identity. Wrap a story around it and it’s apparently good to go for schools.

Eumenes 4y ago

this

huimang 4y ago

Any reasonable person can agree with literal porn being banned. What percentage, exactly, is porn out of all the books being banned? The thing is that LGBT+ content tends to be conflated with sexual content. We both know that the vast majority of these books aren't banned because they're obscene. They're being banned because people don't want any mention of LGBT+ people or topics, with flimsy excuses.

kelipso 4y ago
> We both know that the vast majority of these books aren't banned because people don't want any mention of LGBT+ people or topics. They're being banned because they contain obscene sexually explicit material in them. Seems just as reasonable... So no, not clear at all.

a_shovel 4y ago

The fundamental dishonesty of these book bans is conflating books with sexual content with "hardcore pornography". These bans are happening in high school. Be honest with yourself and admit what you already know: High schoolers are horny. Restricting them from books that discuss sexuality in a realistic way, combined with "abstinence only" sex education still common in these places, makes it more likely that their first exposure with sexual media is actual hardcore pornography, and I don't feel like I need to explain to you why that's bad.

taxyz 4y ago
What’s your limiting principle here? Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? They’re less sexually explicit than drawings of two underage kids blowing each other. Are the straight kids not horny? Should there also be straight porn in schools? You can’t just drop sexually explicit images in a book then cry afoul when parents and taxpayers don’t want it in their public schools. They didn’t allow hustler and playboy and they’re trying to not allow this. They have a pretty consistent standard unlike the groups that advocate for such material to be made available to kids and teens.
- antifa 4y ago
  > Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such a blatently dishonest comparison?
  - taxyz 4y ago
    Yeah nice try, buddy. If I post the blowjob scene from Gender Queer here u/dang is going to ban my account, but you’re free to google it and say whether or not it’s more explicit than a woman baring her breast. While we’re at it, how un-feminist and objectifying to imply that a woman’s body should be overly sexualized. Isn’t treating men’s and women’s nipples differently how we train kids to objectify women? If anything we need more Playboy in schools to destigmatize a women’s bare body. #FreeTheNipple
    - a_shovel 4y ago
      Yes, a blowjob is more explicit than a bare breast. This is not relevant to the topic currently being discussed, which is about how dishonest it is to compare a depiction of a sex act in a memoir about coming to terms with one's own identity and sexuality with pornography.
      - taxyz 4y ago
        You’re hiding behind it being a memoir as if that’s a meaningful distinction or somehow the interest in discovering identity outweighs the harm in having sexually explicit material in schools. If Riley Reid put out a graphic memoir about tearing down taboos in sex and confronting “slut shaming” you wouldn’t advocate for it to be in schools. If you’re trying to claim I’m making some sort of false analogy or moral equivalency then you should try to answer my original question: what is the limiting principle? Because if it’s as weak as “it’s a memoir that’s about discovering identity” it’s not only a weak argument that few would agree with but it opens the door to a lot of other stuff that you’re already trying to rule out. What if Playboy helps some boys discover their straight identity? Is that not worth discovering? Some young girls might find Playboy helpful in discovering their lesbian identity. Wrap a story around it and it’s apparently good to go for schools.