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There's no retail way to try a Framework. This might not help you, but I've got a 13" MBP and 13" Framework both in my lap right now and can say if you absolute

There's no retail way to try a Framework. This might not help you, but I've got a 13" MBP and 13" Framework both in my lap right now and can say if you absolutely can't stand having a laptop that doesn't meet Apple hardware fit and finish, just stick with Apple. The Framework's my daily driver, it's nice but not exceptional, and feels like the $1,000 laptop it is. The value for me is entirely inside of it. This work-owned MBP is more likely to be in a landfill in 2 years than in use. Not only will the Framework still be kicking by that point, but I'll still have a use for some of the parts that I'll have replaced in it (a display, a mainboard, and two of the expansion cards) too. If Mac repairability improves, even with Apple kicking and screaming the whole way, and if Asahi keeps improving and Apple doesn't backtrack on allowing it to work without hassle, that gap narrows and we can just worry about how these feel compared to each other rather than what they're capable of, and I'd be more likely to consider a Mac. Until then I'd rather be on the Framework, if only because it's set up exactly how I want it to be and I know I'll be in its ecosystem for a while yet.

dymk 4y ago
I've never had a mac last less than 4 years, and the ones > 4 years old just become my backups. I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans. I wouldn't be so sure. If there are viable ways to recycle both the chassis and internals, the average Framework will probably outlast the revered old-school unibody design. It will certainly outlast anything with it's storage soldered-on.
- Kostic 4y ago
  Honest question, why do you think that Framework will have smaller lifespan? I have a bunch of working Thinkpads that are approaching the 10-year mark and I imagine that Framework should be even more durable as it's easier to repair and modify.
  - tinco 4y ago
    That you have more than one means they're not your daily drivers. The parent means that Apple laptops are often used by the same person as a daily driver for long times sometimes even 10 years. My previous MBP I used as a daily driver for over 8 years, and my current one is at 6 years still going strong but the new ones are so attractive I'm probably going to cave in and switch sometime soon.
- starkparker 4y ago
  When I say my Mac will more likely be in a landfill, I mean it's a managed machine that my employer will write off and send away for "recycling", and it's an M1 that's already queued for replacement with an M2. If Framework keeps going, it might be a Theseus situation, but it'll probably be on its fourth or fifth mainboard and second battery in 6 years. TCO to me on the Framework and my employer for the Mac will be about the same. The Macs will be nicer all around. They'll also more likely be literal garbage because of management policies.

dymk 4y ago

I've never had a mac last less than 4 years, and the ones > 4 years old just become my backups. I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans.

smoldesu 4y ago
> I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans. I wouldn't be so sure. If there are viable ways to recycle both the chassis and internals, the average Framework will probably outlast the revered old-school unibody design. It will certainly outlast anything with it's storage soldered-on.
Kostic 4y ago
Honest question, why do you think that Framework will have smaller lifespan? I have a bunch of working Thinkpads that are approaching the 10-year mark and I imagine that Framework should be even more durable as it's easier to repair and modify.
- tinco 4y ago
  That you have more than one means they're not your daily drivers. The parent means that Apple laptops are often used by the same person as a daily driver for long times sometimes even 10 years. My previous MBP I used as a daily driver for over 8 years, and my current one is at 6 years still going strong but the new ones are so attractive I'm probably going to cave in and switch sometime soon.
starkparker 4y ago
When I say my Mac will more likely be in a landfill, I mean it's a managed machine that my employer will write off and send away for "recycling", and it's an M1 that's already queued for replacement with an M2. If Framework keeps going, it might be a Theseus situation, but it'll probably be on its fourth or fifth mainboard and second battery in 6 years. TCO to me on the Framework and my employer for the Mac will be about the same. The Macs will be nicer all around. They'll also more likely be literal garbage because of management policies.