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Is there any way I can interact with a framework laptop before buying it? I've always loved laptop hardware, something about having all the power of a computer

Is there any way I can interact with a framework laptop before buying it? I've always loved laptop hardware, something about having all the power of a computer to go seems so freeing to me. forever I've been searching for the 'perfect machine' (granted perfect is relative to the time). ThinkPads were my favourite when IBM owned the brand, and since apple switched to intel nothing came close to the complete package offered by a MacBook. Recently, I've fallen out of love with the hardware (but OSX is still amazing). Apple had made is so disadvantageous to dual boot Linux that it's not even worth trying, and their own operating system has laughably poor support for gaming. (I get that's not everyone's use case but I feel like it's because they haven't found the right genre of game for them, but that's another tangent, and I'm already rambling). The power of the M1 chip is so great, but what's the point of powerful hardware if you can't run the software you want. So now, after a decade of owning MacBook and loving every moment, I have the itch to find something else. Framework is one option, but I've never held one, and frankly they look quite ugly/ cheap. My "perfect" device today would be if someone put the internals of the steam deck in an iPad Pro body, but why sell one device when you can sell 3.

uni_rule 4y ago
The Microsoft Surface devices feel pretty close to modern Apple in fit and finish while also being able to boot whatever else x86 you feel like playing with. Unfortunately their stance towards repair in practice is also pretty similar to Apple. Still, that doesn't change the fact that they physically feel quite nice as devices.
- ykl 4y ago
  If anything Surfaces are even less repairable than MacBooks. At least you can take apart a MacBook with just a screwdriver (albeit with some special bits for Apple’s weird screws), but modern Surfaces are basically filled with glue [1]. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Tea...
  - starkparker 4y ago
    Surface Laptops since the 3 are more repairable than the tablets. Microsoft posted a disassembly video for the 5, which has a magnet-attached C/keyboard cover and Torx screws. https://youtube.com/watch?v=6aCpzyfDUnk https://youtube.com/watch?v=6aCpzyfDUnk I switched from a Surface Laptop 4 to a Framework 13 and don't miss much beyond the touchscreen, and only then for specific games.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      And there's official service manual https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/100440 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/100440
starkparker 4y ago
There's no retail way to try a Framework. This might not help you, but I've got a 13" MBP and 13" Framework both in my lap right now and can say if you absolutely can't stand having a laptop that doesn't meet Apple hardware fit and finish, just stick with Apple. The Framework's my daily driver, it's nice but not exceptional, and feels like the $1,000 laptop it is. The value for me is entirely inside of it. This work-owned MBP is more likely to be in a landfill in 2 years than in use. Not only will the Framework still be kicking by that point, but I'll still have a use for some of the parts that I'll have replaced in it (a display, a mainboard, and two of the expansion cards) too. If Mac repairability improves, even with Apple kicking and screaming the whole way, and if Asahi keeps improving and Apple doesn't backtrack on allowing it to work without hassle, that gap narrows and we can just worry about how these feel compared to each other rather than what they're capable of, and I'd be more likely to consider a Mac. Until then I'd rather be on the Framework, if only because it's set up exactly how I want it to be and I know I'll be in its ecosystem for a while yet.
- dymk 4y ago
  I've never had a mac last less than 4 years, and the ones > 4 years old just become my backups. I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans. I wouldn't be so sure. If there are viable ways to recycle both the chassis and internals, the average Framework will probably outlast the revered old-school unibody design. It will certainly outlast anything with it's storage soldered-on.
  - Kostic 4y ago
    Honest question, why do you think that Framework will have smaller lifespan? I have a bunch of working Thinkpads that are approaching the 10-year mark and I imagine that Framework should be even more durable as it's easier to repair and modify.
Gigachad 4y ago
Linux is really close to being ready for use in the MacBook now. I have been testing it every few weeks and imo the only thing preventing me using it for work is thunderbolt support and better Bluetooth. Thunderbolt is supposedly in development right now.
- bestouff 4y ago
  I have one. TB is not there, suspend doesn't work (eats battery at the same rate that poweron, often renders wifi, keyboard or trackpad unusable), and many little things still don't work. I have no hope seeing it being usable in 2023.

uni_rule 4y ago

The Microsoft Surface devices feel pretty close to modern Apple in fit and finish while also being able to boot whatever else x86 you feel like playing with. Unfortunately their stance towards repair in practice is also pretty similar to Apple. Still, that doesn't change the fact that they physically feel quite nice as devices.

ykl 4y ago
If anything Surfaces are even less repairable than MacBooks. At least you can take apart a MacBook with just a screwdriver (albeit with some special bits for Apple’s weird screws), but modern Surfaces are basically filled with glue [1]. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Teardown/92915 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Laptop+Tea...
- starkparker 4y ago
  Surface Laptops since the 3 are more repairable than the tablets. Microsoft posted a disassembly video for the 5, which has a magnet-attached C/keyboard cover and Torx screws. https://youtube.com/watch?v=6aCpzyfDUnk https://youtube.com/watch?v=6aCpzyfDUnk I switched from a Surface Laptop 4 to a Framework 13 and don't miss much beyond the touchscreen, and only then for specific games.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    And there's official service manual https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/100440 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/100440

starkparker 4y ago

There's no retail way to try a Framework. This might not help you, but I've got a 13" MBP and 13" Framework both in my lap right now and can say if you absolutely can't stand having a laptop that doesn't meet Apple hardware fit and finish, just stick with Apple. The Framework's my daily driver, it's nice but not exceptional, and feels like the $1,000 laptop it is. The value for me is entirely inside of it. This work-owned MBP is more likely to be in a landfill in 2 years than in use. Not only will the Framework still be kicking by that point, but I'll still have a use for some of the parts that I'll have replaced in it (a display, a mainboard, and two of the expansion cards) too. If Mac repairability improves, even with Apple kicking and screaming the whole way, and if Asahi keeps improving and Apple doesn't backtrack on allowing it to work without hassle, that gap narrows and we can just worry about how these feel compared to each other rather than what they're capable of, and I'd be more likely to consider a Mac. Until then I'd rather be on the Framework, if only because it's set up exactly how I want it to be and I know I'll be in its ecosystem for a while yet.

dymk 4y ago
I've never had a mac last less than 4 years, and the ones > 4 years old just become my backups. I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > I doubt Framework laptops will find themselves with similar lifespans. I wouldn't be so sure. If there are viable ways to recycle both the chassis and internals, the average Framework will probably outlast the revered old-school unibody design. It will certainly outlast anything with it's storage soldered-on.
- Kostic 4y ago
  Honest question, why do you think that Framework will have smaller lifespan? I have a bunch of working Thinkpads that are approaching the 10-year mark and I imagine that Framework should be even more durable as it's easier to repair and modify.

Gigachad 4y ago

Linux is really close to being ready for use in the MacBook now. I have been testing it every few weeks and imo the only thing preventing me using it for work is thunderbolt support and better Bluetooth. Thunderbolt is supposedly in development right now.

bestouff 4y ago
I have one. TB is not there, suspend doesn't work (eats battery at the same rate that poweron, often renders wifi, keyboard or trackpad unusable), and many little things still don't work. I have no hope seeing it being usable in 2023.