5 ms·

Matte display yay! I missed that a lot on the MBP. Seems like they still want to bundle a windows license, I never understand this, do MS pay OEMs to do this?

nwah1 4y ago
More likely, the answer is that a lot of Windows users want a hassle-free experience. DIY edition of this would have no Windows tax, if you are a linux user.
schmorptron 4y ago
Not if you get the DIY afaik!
genocidicbunny 4y ago
If you pick the DIY option, you can omit the Windows license. You'll have to install Linux yourself, but that doesn't seem like a terribly difficult task for someone already going with the DIY option. I'm guessing they don't want to officially support any specific distro, and offering support for multiple distros is probably a bit outside their wheelhouse at the moment. [e: this is perhaps not the case]
- starkparker 4y ago
  > I'm guessing they don't want to officially support any specific distro https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux > Officially supported > Fedora 37 > Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
  - genocidicbunny 4y ago
    Perhaps it's not updated yet, but I don't see AMD in that list.
    - starkparker 4y ago
      Sorry, I missed where it was specifically about the AMD model. The 13th-gen Intel got added to the list between me posting and you posting, so who knows.
    - miloignis 4y ago
      In the blog post they indicate that they will be supported: https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-with-13th-gen-intel-core-and-amd-ryzen-7040-series https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-with-13th-gen-in... Optimized for Linux We continue to focus on solid Linux support, and we’re happy to share that Fedora 38 and Ubuntu 22.04 will work fantastically out of the box for both the 13th Gen Intel® Core™ and AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series models. We have thorough setup and troubleshooting guides and will continue to provide official support for these two distributions. Manjaro XFCE 22.0 and Linux Mint 21.1 are also working great, and we’re detailing the documentation for those as well. You can check compatibility with popular distros as we continue to test them on our Linux page or in the Framework Community.
      - genocidicbunny 4y ago
        Ah that is very good to hear. Windows 11 is looking non-viable more and more these days, and I'm due for a hardware refresh too. I might find myself ordering one of these.
      - ncallaway 4y ago
        Well... That was the last hurdle I waiting for before pre-ordering the AMD mainboard as an upgrade to my current intel 11th gen laptop.
      - stavros 4y ago
        For what it's worth, Linux works great on the current generation. Even sleep works, although it wakes up so quickly that I'm not sure it's actually gone to sleep. I should try pinging it to see.
        tracker1 4y ago
  - infogulch 4y ago
    Yes, several distros are supported now. Even NixOS, though not yet officially. As someone who purchased multiple DIY editions running linux, avoiding shipping any framework with a preinstalled linux distro has some real benefits: Not shipping with Linux installed gets Framework out of the business of managing distros and images themselves. They also dodge a neverending barrage of "But what about my favorite distro X?" that would surely come for them as soon as they picked some fixed set of distros. If you are uncomfortable assembling computer components and installing an OS yourself then linux is probably not for you. This acts as a filter for people who are serious. It's a lot easier to support newbie computer users on windows, and they are a lot more likely to get support from friends and family. They would be shipping a DIY edition anyways, this vastly simplifies their inventory. These may offend your Linux-maximalist sensibilities, c'est la vie.
    - tracker1 4y ago
      Some of us are perfectly comfortable with the software side, but no longer have the hand eye coordination or dexterity to handle those tiny little ribbon adapters in modern computers. Personally, I kind of wish System76 would sell framework laptops with a generalized configuration and PopOS pre-insalled.
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  So how about 'No OS preinstalled' option? and allow customers to chose if they want to pay the MS tax or not. Maybe they are not allowed to offer this option? Including any linux distro would be better, because it would show a growing linux desktop market share.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    Agreed... it's easy enough to blow away a given installed distro. I'm half surprised System76 doesn't sell these with PopOS.
  - DreadY2K 4y ago
    If you pick the DIY version, that is an option. I got mine with no OS preinstalled and no MS tax, and it was easy enough to install Manjaro.
snerbles 4y ago
I passed the Windows license through to a VM on mine. Not that I do much with it, but it does activate.
- ncallaway 4y ago
  Ooh, how do you do that? I got a windows one, since I figured I may dual boot it, but I never do. A VM would be a good use of that license.
  - snerbles 4y ago
    Here's a good start: https://community.frame.work/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-dual-boot-linux-fedora-or-pop-os-with-windows/16475/18 https://community.frame.work/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-dual-... See also https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec38c305ec https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec3...
    - ncallaway 4y ago
      Brilliant, thanks!
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Depends how your Windows was licensed; if you had OEM license with license key that you had to type in (this is usually when Windows license is an option), or if the key was embedded in BIOS (when Windows license is provided and it is not an option). In the second case, you have to pass through SLIC and MSDM ACPI tables from host to guest. For example, like this: https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec38c305ec https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec3...
    - ncallaway 4y ago
      Brilliant, thanks!
nrp 4y ago
You can pick up the Framework Laptop DIY Edition with no OS or OS license included, and bring whichever distro you want.

nwah1 4y ago

More likely, the answer is that a lot of Windows users want a hassle-free experience. DIY edition of this would have no Windows tax, if you are a linux user.

schmorptron 4y ago

Not if you get the DIY afaik!

genocidicbunny 4y ago

If you pick the DIY option, you can omit the Windows license. You'll have to install Linux yourself, but that doesn't seem like a terribly difficult task for someone already going with the DIY option. I'm guessing they don't want to officially support any specific distro, and offering support for multiple distros is probably a bit outside their wheelhouse at the moment. [e: this is perhaps not the case]

starkparker 4y ago
> I'm guessing they don't want to officially support any specific distro https://frame.work/linux https://frame.work/linux > Officially supported > Fedora 37 > Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  Perhaps it's not updated yet, but I don't see AMD in that list.
  - starkparker 4y ago
    Sorry, I missed where it was specifically about the AMD model. The 13th-gen Intel got added to the list between me posting and you posting, so who knows.
  - miloignis 4y ago
    In the blog post they indicate that they will be supported: https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-with-13th-gen-intel-core-and-amd-ryzen-7040-series https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-with-13th-gen-in... Optimized for Linux We continue to focus on solid Linux support, and we’re happy to share that Fedora 38 and Ubuntu 22.04 will work fantastically out of the box for both the 13th Gen Intel® Core™ and AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series models. We have thorough setup and troubleshooting guides and will continue to provide official support for these two distributions. Manjaro XFCE 22.0 and Linux Mint 21.1 are also working great, and we’re detailing the documentation for those as well. You can check compatibility with popular distros as we continue to test them on our Linux page or in the Framework Community.
    - genocidicbunny 4y ago
      Ah that is very good to hear. Windows 11 is looking non-viable more and more these days, and I'm due for a hardware refresh too. I might find myself ordering one of these.
    - ncallaway 4y ago
      Well... That was the last hurdle I waiting for before pre-ordering the AMD mainboard as an upgrade to my current intel 11th gen laptop.
    - stavros 4y ago
      For what it's worth, Linux works great on the current generation. Even sleep works, although it wakes up so quickly that I'm not sure it's actually gone to sleep. I should try pinging it to see.
      - tracker1 4y ago
- infogulch 4y ago
  Yes, several distros are supported now. Even NixOS, though not yet officially. As someone who purchased multiple DIY editions running linux, avoiding shipping any framework with a preinstalled linux distro has some real benefits: Not shipping with Linux installed gets Framework out of the business of managing distros and images themselves. They also dodge a neverending barrage of "But what about my favorite distro X?" that would surely come for them as soon as they picked some fixed set of distros. If you are uncomfortable assembling computer components and installing an OS yourself then linux is probably not for you. This acts as a filter for people who are serious. It's a lot easier to support newbie computer users on windows, and they are a lot more likely to get support from friends and family. They would be shipping a DIY edition anyways, this vastly simplifies their inventory. These may offend your Linux-maximalist sensibilities, c'est la vie.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    Some of us are perfectly comfortable with the software side, but no longer have the hand eye coordination or dexterity to handle those tiny little ribbon adapters in modern computers. Personally, I kind of wish System76 would sell framework laptops with a generalized configuration and PopOS pre-insalled.
whitehexagon 4y ago
So how about 'No OS preinstalled' option? and allow customers to chose if they want to pay the MS tax or not. Maybe they are not allowed to offer this option? Including any linux distro would be better, because it would show a growing linux desktop market share.
- tracker1 4y ago
  Agreed... it's easy enough to blow away a given installed distro. I'm half surprised System76 doesn't sell these with PopOS.
- DreadY2K 4y ago
  If you pick the DIY version, that is an option. I got mine with no OS preinstalled and no MS tax, and it was easy enough to install Manjaro.

snerbles 4y ago

I passed the Windows license through to a VM on mine. Not that I do much with it, but it does activate.

ncallaway 4y ago
Ooh, how do you do that? I got a windows one, since I figured I may dual boot it, but I never do. A VM would be a good use of that license.
- snerbles 4y ago
  Here's a good start: https://community.frame.work/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-dual-boot-linux-fedora-or-pop-os-with-windows/16475/18 https://community.frame.work/t/what-is-the-best-way-to-dual-... See also https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec38c305ec https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec3...
  - ncallaway 4y ago
    Brilliant, thanks!
- vetinari 4y ago
  Depends how your Windows was licensed; if you had OEM license with license key that you had to type in (this is usually when Windows license is an option), or if the key was embedded in BIOS (when Windows license is provided and it is not an option). In the second case, you have to pass through SLIC and MSDM ACPI tables from host to guest. For example, like this: https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec38c305ec https://gist.github.com/Informatic/49bd034d43e054bd1d8d4fec3...
  - ncallaway 4y ago
    Brilliant, thanks!

nrp 4y ago

You can pick up the Framework Laptop DIY Edition with no OS or OS license included, and bring whichever distro you want.