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They prey on people who don't want to rock the boat, don't know that they can try to rock the boat, or are just too busy for this absolute nonsense. The leader

They prey on people who don't want to rock the boat, don't know that they can try to rock the boat, or are just too busy for this absolute nonsense. The leadership of any company that does anything like this should be very consciously aware that they're mediocre leftovers of the professional world. Real leaders of real companies don't have to be predatory. It is a screaming confession of incompetence.

mattgreenrocks 4y ago
> Real leaders of real companies don't have to be predatory. It is a screaming confession of incompetence. There's a certain toxic element of business culture that preaches dominance as a virtuous thing, ether overtly, or through dubious terminology/beliefs in ideas like "alpha males." It argues that if you aren't dominating someone, then they necessarily must be dominating you in this interaction. It is an extremely reductionistic view that has trickled down into certain parts of Weird Internet, too.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Real leaders of real companies don't have to be predatory I dont think it works as your described. Amazon is plenty predatory. What happens is a company tries to see what it can get away with. If they don't get in legal trouble, and customers don't abandon them in droves, then other companies start doing the same. It becomes industry standard.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  You might be right. Though I think this is a cousin of "I'm just following orders." Too many people don't speak up. Is there nobody who feels embarrassed that this is what they're a part of? "Hey dad, what did you do at work today?" "I worked with some lawyers to make an indecipherable contract so that we can extract extra money for a service someone doesn't want." I guess the answer is some mix of "make the org structure so complex that everyone can feel innocent because no one person is pulling the trigger" (I don't buy it, that just means incompetent managers) plus a heaping scoop of cognitive dissonance.
  - daemedeor 4y ago
    There’s two layers to it. With a sufficiently large enough org, you can build it in discrete enough parts (assuming it’s a building something based) that only the one who creates the final part is the one who knows what the ultimate goal is or the one who pulls the trigger. These people are also high enough to be inured to any effects of their decision. The second layer is even if you can see where it’s going and you do care, is it worth it to speak up and get fired? I know whistleblowers are meant to be protected (speaking only for the US) but with at-will employment and certain conditions that favor employers, how do you know they won’t cycle in someone who will do it anyway?
  - myaccountonhn 4y ago
    My experience is that they somehow delusion themselves into thinking they are doing a good thing and providing a good service.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    I think the root cause is the lack of social consequences for this kind of antisocial behaviour. Charles Boycott[0] engaged in a similar kind of behaviour and in response the local community refused to engage with him. That particular kind of community has largely disappeared. Furthermore, the consequences of someone's actions are often so far removed from the people they interact with that the behaviour becomes easily excused. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott
prawn 4y ago
I imagine there are consultants that go around to gyms (especially chains) and say "We've got x things that are trivial to implement and will guarantee you make $123 more per customer on average. Cost for our analysis and recommendations is $12,345 with an assurance that you will make this back in the first 6 months." And one of the things is adding a paragraph to the sign up terms. It's a bit like the toothpaste consultant story.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  It's like how bike stores and hair salons want you to set up an account.
  - prawn 4y ago
    Everyone wants you to set up an account. It's tiring just visiting a physical store!

mattgreenrocks 4y ago

> Real leaders of real companies don't have to be predatory. It is a screaming confession of incompetence. There's a certain toxic element of business culture that preaches dominance as a virtuous thing, ether overtly, or through dubious terminology/beliefs in ideas like "alpha males." It argues that if you aren't dominating someone, then they necessarily must be dominating you in this interaction. It is an extremely reductionistic view that has trickled down into certain parts of Weird Internet, too.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> Real leaders of real companies don't have to be predatory I dont think it works as your described. Amazon is plenty predatory. What happens is a company tries to see what it can get away with. If they don't get in legal trouble, and customers don't abandon them in droves, then other companies start doing the same. It becomes industry standard.

Waterluvian 4y ago
You might be right. Though I think this is a cousin of "I'm just following orders." Too many people don't speak up. Is there nobody who feels embarrassed that this is what they're a part of? "Hey dad, what did you do at work today?" "I worked with some lawyers to make an indecipherable contract so that we can extract extra money for a service someone doesn't want." I guess the answer is some mix of "make the org structure so complex that everyone can feel innocent because no one person is pulling the trigger" (I don't buy it, that just means incompetent managers) plus a heaping scoop of cognitive dissonance.
- daemedeor 4y ago
  There’s two layers to it. With a sufficiently large enough org, you can build it in discrete enough parts (assuming it’s a building something based) that only the one who creates the final part is the one who knows what the ultimate goal is or the one who pulls the trigger. These people are also high enough to be inured to any effects of their decision. The second layer is even if you can see where it’s going and you do care, is it worth it to speak up and get fired? I know whistleblowers are meant to be protected (speaking only for the US) but with at-will employment and certain conditions that favor employers, how do you know they won’t cycle in someone who will do it anyway?
- myaccountonhn 4y ago
  My experience is that they somehow delusion themselves into thinking they are doing a good thing and providing a good service.
- Jochim 4y ago
  I think the root cause is the lack of social consequences for this kind of antisocial behaviour. Charles Boycott[0] engaged in a similar kind of behaviour and in response the local community refused to engage with him. That particular kind of community has largely disappeared. Furthermore, the consequences of someone's actions are often so far removed from the people they interact with that the behaviour becomes easily excused. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott

prawn 4y ago

I imagine there are consultants that go around to gyms (especially chains) and say "We've got x things that are trivial to implement and will guarantee you make $123 more per customer on average. Cost for our analysis and recommendations is $12,345 with an assurance that you will make this back in the first 6 months." And one of the things is adding a paragraph to the sign up terms. It's a bit like the toothpaste consultant story.

maxerickson 4y ago
It's like how bike stores and hair salons want you to set up an account.
- prawn 4y ago
  Everyone wants you to set up an account. It's tiring just visiting a physical store!