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Every time Framework is brought up, there's a chorus of people saying they won't buy until they release an AMD edition, and as one of them this is great to see.

Every time Framework is brought up, there's a chorus of people saying they won't buy until they release an AMD edition, and as one of them this is great to see. Edit: Also the input deck and the ability to attach an egpu as well as upgrade to a newer egpu in the future are huge. This is a fantastic leap forward for Framework.

brucethemoose2 4y ago
Or some arbitrary AI accelerator! Jim Keller should make a Tenstorrent board. They already want to make desktop cards, and that would be a great way to market them.
- samtheDamned 4y ago
  Yeah the possibilities are exciting to say the least, the ability to specialize your laptop into an AI processing powerhouse on the fly could be very valuable.
- haneefmubarak 4y ago
  IIRC Jim Keller is now working on a Atomic Semi (new semiconductor fab startup) with Sam Zeloof, so he's probably not at Tenstorrent anymore?
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    He was just interviewed a month ago! https://morethanmoore.substack.com/p/interview-with-jim-keller-tenstorrent https://morethanmoore.substack.com/p/interview-with-jim-kell... If he quit Tenstorrent, that must have been very recent.
- nrp 4y ago
  We would absolutely love to see a Tenstorrent Expansion Bay Module.
  - brucethemoose2 4y ago
    You should reach out! Their e75 is 75W and could probably be trimmed further down: https://tenstorrent.com/grayskull/ https://tenstorrent.com/grayskull/ Not only would they get exposure, but they would love to see Framework-owning devs experimenting on Grayskull like its an RTX 3060. Of course it would probably be linux only, but still...
    - nrp 4y ago
      Awesome! The e75 looks like it should be feasible. I've just reached out.
seanp2k2 4y ago
I’m one of the chorus. I actually preordered a TOTL Asus Zephyrus Duo about a month ago, and it came in last week. It’s been a dream so far — 16 real cores of AMD 7945HX, laptop 4090, hybrid graphics, two real screens! Main display is a quite color-accurate 16:10 miniled with 240hz freesync, lower display is a high-PPI IPS touch panel, dual raid-able M2 slots (I put in dual WD SN850Xs in raid0 and that’s showing ~14.5GB/s reads and ~13Gb/s writes in CrystalDiskMark), decent sound and webcam, keyboard is at the bottom edge…the only downsides are the touchpad size is a bit strange (portrait orientation) and the click on it doesn’t feel quite Macbook nice, no USB4, and the power brick is very brick-like, with a thick cable that doesn’t flex very well. Cooling is excellent due to the intake fans under the second screen combined with the lower heat output of the AMD chip, allowing it to run maxed out without throttling…they did this right. I can’t get Pop_OS to install yet, guessing it might need the AMD raid driver like Windows did, requires further investigation. Anyway, excited for a Framework version too! While I prefer AMD integrated graphics to Intel, NVidia dGPU would be even better, and even better still if it was upgradable. Are laptop GPUs still available on MXM cards?
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  Why even try to use the hardware raid? I can't imagine it actually performs any better than mdraid, and with mdraid the drives are as portable as plain drives. You could destroy the special laptop and stick the drives into usb enclosures and access the array again on any other machine.
  - ChuckMcM 4y ago
    Tell me you work in ops with out saying you work in ops. :-) Btw, this is excellent advice. Funny story, I have a FreeNAS device and the motherboard died and I thought "Oh my, I need to bring my ZFS volumes up on another machine, but I didn't have another machine with 6 SATA bays! I ended up having the drives all sitting out on the workbench connected a mainboard with 8 SATA ports so that I could create an archive of the data, and then got the mainboard fixed so I could re-assemble and re-use the FreeNAS but still it alerted me to the fact that I really needed a 6-8 drive cabinet if I wanted to do this again.
vanilla_nut 4y ago
Really exciting to see. I almost got a Framework for my work setup last month, but lack of an AMD option held me back. My personal laptop is still chugging along, but the AMD Framework is at the top of my list now! If only I'd waited an extra month to order my new work equipment.
_skel 4y ago
There is always going to be a chorus about something. Power users are impossible to please because they all have strong opinions but not the same opinions. People will still want different screen resolutions, aspect ratios, keyboard layouts, etc. Now that AMD is available people will want particular CPU SKUs. It will never end. I wish Framework luck, because they are targeting the pickiest userbase that exists.
- chaosharmonic 4y ago
  I personally held off on getting one until my previous device (a Spectre x360) got smashed up in a car crash, but don't in any way regret this purchase even if I do still sort of miss touchscreens (and probably also would have waited for an AMD option otherwise). But yeah, when I was suddenly in the market for a new laptop anyway, the extensive freedom to upgrade and configure this made it an extremely easy sell compared to anything else that would have been on my radar.
- klardotsh 4y ago
  AMD 3:2 thin-and-light at a small overall screen size (but still usable) and with replaceable parts checks an enormous amount of power-user boxes. Getting off Intel was their last critical hurdle, and while for whatever reason it took them an eternity to listen to that (rather overwhelmingly loud) feedback, they finally did it. I suspect the choruses will be much quieter now. If I hadn't already landed on a Beelink GTR6 mini-PC desktop + MNT Reform laptop, I'd be considering this finally - indeed, one of many reasons I went Reform over Framework originally was because Framework was married to Intel. And frankly, 3:2 still makes Framework tempting despite my lack of need for it.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    I think USB4/TB3 was a huge box for the latest gen AMD mobile platform. Can't speak for others, but I'm generally docked with power over TB3 at home, and when I was in the office before. It's the one thing I wanted out of AMD that was missing for general use. Glad to see it here. Definitely going Framework for my next laptop in a couple years... really tempted to get one sooner than later and pass down my M1 air to my daughter.
yandrypozo 4y ago
I'm very curious why people prefer AMD chips (I've never used one), would you share why do you and/or people you know like AMD so much?
- slaw 4y ago
  I have a Dell laptop with Intel i9-12900H. It is very noisy and hot.
- amiga-workbench 4y ago
  AMD have been thrashing Intel in performance, thermals and battery life for several years now. Intel are also a rather unpleasant company, I'll happily go with a competitor whenever it makes sense.
  - favaq 4y ago
    That changed recently, 13th gen intel remains to be beaten.
    - rwalle 4y ago
      In what? High-end desktop CPU performance? I don't think people in this thread is interested in that.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    For mobile battery life, Intel still better at idle power consumption.
- bityard 4y ago
  AMD CPUs often offer high performance at a lower cost than Intel's equivalent offerings. But some people just like supporting the underdog.
- samtheDamned 4y ago
  On Linux AMD drivers are by far some of the best, and the driver support is miles better both on the end of the 1st party support as well as 3rd party software support. There's a few instances where AMD GPU drivers even outshine their windows counterparts like in OpenGL performance. Intel's driver support is great as well, but their performance recently has not matched AMD, and their iGPUs don't compare to AMD's iGPUs. Also for beefier laptops with discreet GPUs, intel up until very recently would need an NVIDIA card to get decent performance which would require NVIDIA drivers, which are notorious for complicating things on Linux. On the other hand AMD laptops with discreet AMD gpus already have their drivers built into the kernel which removes almost any potential complication. Also there's personal preference, which in my case leans toward AMD because of their generally more open stance with their new technology, like raytracing and FSR which is contrasted by NVIDIAs typically closed off approach to the same things. Intel isn't as bad as NVIDIA in this department either but this is just personal opinion. Lastly AMD CPUs are generally cheaper than intel, and in the last few generations performed better overall than intel. TL:DR AMD on linux has great drivers with good support, the synergy between AMD's CPUs and GPUs and their combined APUs are very good, and personally I appreciate AMD's more open approach to technology like FSR, even if they aren't anywhere near perfect.
miloignis 4y ago
I'm one! Just preordered the Ryzen 7, and very excited. Have held and messed with my friend's current Intel 13, and I was a big fan.
- FullyFunctional 4y ago
  Good thing too, as if there’s one thing Intel 13 needs, it’s a big fan. (worth the down votes) I really don’t need another notebook, but I like what Framework is doing, and I’ll be watching the reviews.
deleted 4y ago
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ttanev 4y ago
I for one was waiting for a touch screen option as well, but this sounds easier than the AMD part sounded awhile ago. And they will probably add it as an option at some point, their track record for listening to what their users are saying in their forums is awesome so far.

brucethemoose2 4y ago

Or some arbitrary AI accelerator! Jim Keller should make a Tenstorrent board. They already want to make desktop cards, and that would be a great way to market them.

samtheDamned 4y ago
Yeah the possibilities are exciting to say the least, the ability to specialize your laptop into an AI processing powerhouse on the fly could be very valuable.
haneefmubarak 4y ago
IIRC Jim Keller is now working on a Atomic Semi (new semiconductor fab startup) with Sam Zeloof, so he's probably not at Tenstorrent anymore?
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  He was just interviewed a month ago! https://morethanmoore.substack.com/p/interview-with-jim-keller-tenstorrent https://morethanmoore.substack.com/p/interview-with-jim-kell... If he quit Tenstorrent, that must have been very recent.
nrp 4y ago
We would absolutely love to see a Tenstorrent Expansion Bay Module.
- brucethemoose2 4y ago
  You should reach out! Their e75 is 75W and could probably be trimmed further down: https://tenstorrent.com/grayskull/ https://tenstorrent.com/grayskull/ Not only would they get exposure, but they would love to see Framework-owning devs experimenting on Grayskull like its an RTX 3060. Of course it would probably be linux only, but still...
  - nrp 4y ago
    Awesome! The e75 looks like it should be feasible. I've just reached out.

seanp2k2 4y ago

I’m one of the chorus. I actually preordered a TOTL Asus Zephyrus Duo about a month ago, and it came in last week. It’s been a dream so far — 16 real cores of AMD 7945HX, laptop 4090, hybrid graphics, two real screens! Main display is a quite color-accurate 16:10 miniled with 240hz freesync, lower display is a high-PPI IPS touch panel, dual raid-able M2 slots (I put in dual WD SN850Xs in raid0 and that’s showing ~14.5GB/s reads and ~13Gb/s writes in CrystalDiskMark), decent sound and webcam, keyboard is at the bottom edge…the only downsides are the touchpad size is a bit strange (portrait orientation) and the click on it doesn’t feel quite Macbook nice, no USB4, and the power brick is very brick-like, with a thick cable that doesn’t flex very well. Cooling is excellent due to the intake fans under the second screen combined with the lower heat output of the AMD chip, allowing it to run maxed out without throttling…they did this right. I can’t get Pop_OS to install yet, guessing it might need the AMD raid driver like Windows did, requires further investigation. Anyway, excited for a Framework version too! While I prefer AMD integrated graphics to Intel, NVidia dGPU would be even better, and even better still if it was upgradable. Are laptop GPUs still available on MXM cards?

Brian_K_White 4y ago
Why even try to use the hardware raid? I can't imagine it actually performs any better than mdraid, and with mdraid the drives are as portable as plain drives. You could destroy the special laptop and stick the drives into usb enclosures and access the array again on any other machine.
- ChuckMcM 4y ago
  Tell me you work in ops with out saying you work in ops. :-) Btw, this is excellent advice. Funny story, I have a FreeNAS device and the motherboard died and I thought "Oh my, I need to bring my ZFS volumes up on another machine, but I didn't have another machine with 6 SATA bays! I ended up having the drives all sitting out on the workbench connected a mainboard with 8 SATA ports so that I could create an archive of the data, and then got the mainboard fixed so I could re-assemble and re-use the FreeNAS but still it alerted me to the fact that I really needed a 6-8 drive cabinet if I wanted to do this again.

vanilla_nut 4y ago

Really exciting to see. I almost got a Framework for my work setup last month, but lack of an AMD option held me back. My personal laptop is still chugging along, but the AMD Framework is at the top of my list now! If only I'd waited an extra month to order my new work equipment.

_skel 4y ago

There is always going to be a chorus about something. Power users are impossible to please because they all have strong opinions but not the same opinions. People will still want different screen resolutions, aspect ratios, keyboard layouts, etc. Now that AMD is available people will want particular CPU SKUs. It will never end. I wish Framework luck, because they are targeting the pickiest userbase that exists.

chaosharmonic 4y ago
I personally held off on getting one until my previous device (a Spectre x360) got smashed up in a car crash, but don't in any way regret this purchase even if I do still sort of miss touchscreens (and probably also would have waited for an AMD option otherwise). But yeah, when I was suddenly in the market for a new laptop anyway, the extensive freedom to upgrade and configure this made it an extremely easy sell compared to anything else that would have been on my radar.
klardotsh 4y ago
AMD 3:2 thin-and-light at a small overall screen size (but still usable) and with replaceable parts checks an enormous amount of power-user boxes. Getting off Intel was their last critical hurdle, and while for whatever reason it took them an eternity to listen to that (rather overwhelmingly loud) feedback, they finally did it. I suspect the choruses will be much quieter now. If I hadn't already landed on a Beelink GTR6 mini-PC desktop + MNT Reform laptop, I'd be considering this finally - indeed, one of many reasons I went Reform over Framework originally was because Framework was married to Intel. And frankly, 3:2 still makes Framework tempting despite my lack of need for it.
- tracker1 4y ago
  I think USB4/TB3 was a huge box for the latest gen AMD mobile platform. Can't speak for others, but I'm generally docked with power over TB3 at home, and when I was in the office before. It's the one thing I wanted out of AMD that was missing for general use. Glad to see it here. Definitely going Framework for my next laptop in a couple years... really tempted to get one sooner than later and pass down my M1 air to my daughter.

yandrypozo 4y ago

I'm very curious why people prefer AMD chips (I've never used one), would you share why do you and/or people you know like AMD so much?

slaw 4y ago
I have a Dell laptop with Intel i9-12900H. It is very noisy and hot.
amiga-workbench 4y ago
AMD have been thrashing Intel in performance, thermals and battery life for several years now. Intel are also a rather unpleasant company, I'll happily go with a competitor whenever it makes sense.
- favaq 4y ago
  That changed recently, 13th gen intel remains to be beaten.
  - rwalle 4y ago
    In what? High-end desktop CPU performance? I don't think people in this thread is interested in that.
- fomine3 4y ago
  For mobile battery life, Intel still better at idle power consumption.
bityard 4y ago
AMD CPUs often offer high performance at a lower cost than Intel's equivalent offerings. But some people just like supporting the underdog.
samtheDamned 4y ago
On Linux AMD drivers are by far some of the best, and the driver support is miles better both on the end of the 1st party support as well as 3rd party software support. There's a few instances where AMD GPU drivers even outshine their windows counterparts like in OpenGL performance. Intel's driver support is great as well, but their performance recently has not matched AMD, and their iGPUs don't compare to AMD's iGPUs. Also for beefier laptops with discreet GPUs, intel up until very recently would need an NVIDIA card to get decent performance which would require NVIDIA drivers, which are notorious for complicating things on Linux. On the other hand AMD laptops with discreet AMD gpus already have their drivers built into the kernel which removes almost any potential complication. Also there's personal preference, which in my case leans toward AMD because of their generally more open stance with their new technology, like raytracing and FSR which is contrasted by NVIDIAs typically closed off approach to the same things. Intel isn't as bad as NVIDIA in this department either but this is just personal opinion. Lastly AMD CPUs are generally cheaper than intel, and in the last few generations performed better overall than intel. TL:DR AMD on linux has great drivers with good support, the synergy between AMD's CPUs and GPUs and their combined APUs are very good, and personally I appreciate AMD's more open approach to technology like FSR, even if they aren't anywhere near perfect.

miloignis 4y ago

I'm one! Just preordered the Ryzen 7, and very excited. Have held and messed with my friend's current Intel 13, and I was a big fan.

FullyFunctional 4y ago
Good thing too, as if there’s one thing Intel 13 needs, it’s a big fan. (worth the down votes) I really don’t need another notebook, but I like what Framework is doing, and I’ll be watching the reviews.

deleted 4y ago

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ttanev 4y ago

I for one was waiting for a touch screen option as well, but this sounds easier than the AMD part sounded awhile ago. And they will probably add it as an option at some point, their track record for listening to what their users are saying in their forums is awesome so far.