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This was a really interesting takeaway: Suppose COVID-19 produces a lasting COVID-19 personality disorder due to anatomical damage of the orbitofrontal cortex

by jehb 4y ago

This was a really interesting takeaway: Suppose COVID-19 produces a lasting COVID-19 personality disorder due to anatomical damage of the orbitofrontal cortex created by SARS-CoV-2 infection. In that case, those segments of the population that shun public health interventions and aggressively seek to stop general health measures may be entering into a vicious cycle of decline. As repeated infections occur, damage to the brain increases, resulting in decreased emotional control and increased aggression. It's like the literal opposite of "woke mind disease" except, unlike the former, it may actually be real.

salawat 4y ago
Hot take: The people coexisting with the thing are representative of a new biological groundstate for humanity. You see them as politically undesirable, but like it or not, the damn thing is endemic now. Welcome to the new world 'omae. You can live in your bubble, or you can pop it and rejoin with everyone else. 90% of the world even with perfect compliance is not capable of sustainably eliminating the damn thing. I'm betting that you'll see a trend over the next decade toward ongoing adult neurogenesis to compensate for the destructive pressure of the infectious agent, an uptick in metacognitive traits manifesting in the populace, combined with higher incidence of self-reported mental illness, and associated de-stigmatization. On the whole, there may be some silver lining to it afterall.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway81523 4y ago
  > The people coexisting with the thing are representative of a new biological groundstate for humanity. You see them as politically undesirable, but like it or not, the damn thing is endemic now. We had something like that in the 1970s too, with leaded gasoline. There is a theory that neurotoxic effects of lead exposure caused similar behaviour changes in large numbers of people, resulting in a US-wide bump in violent crime until the exposed cohort aged out after leaded gas was banned: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur... https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-le... Added: re politically undesirable: it seems to me that powerful political and similar figures tend to be extravert types who spend a lot of time around other people think they are somehow immune, so they get infected. So Trump, Musk, Boris Johnson, and (not sure) maybe Biden have all been infected. Musk has always been a bit toxic, but at least he used to know how to make money. Lately he has been mismanaging Twitter and Tesla pretty badly. Could that be from Covid?
  - salawat 4y ago
    That one is drastically different in that you could politically cycle that out. It wasn't self-replicating, with the only contribution needed for perpetuation being humans that breathe to exist. Leaded gas required it to be economically feasible to continue producing/consuming leaded gas. Leaded gas required a human being to make it in the first place, and keep it being made. COVID gives not 2 shakes about profittability. Think of it like measles, but without the antigenic stability to keep vaccines effective in the long term. It's here,and it's here to stay. It ain't just humans that host the thing either. So what are you going to do? Drive all the reservoir species to extinction? Convince everyone to be okay with locking up non-compliant persons with the public health system? Implement it? Then what? I'm sure such an authoritarian cudgel won't be abused ever and will be dismantled as soon as COVID hits smallpox/polio status and stays that way, right? With full dismantling, and invalidation of precedent, reversal of enforcement budgets and teardown of infrastructure without repurposing... Right? If you think I'm just being a codger who doesn't think COVID is more than a flu, you're dead wrong. It is much, much more, and far worse by leagues. Whatever we do to try to "eradicate" it, however, has the potential to completely dismantle the fundamental principles on which a classically liberal government operates. "Public health" is one of about four things in which the best of intentions is basically guaranteed to turn into the highway to hell. Nat Sec, and the Economy, being two more, and with "For the Children" being the last. We're going to have to work through it, and achieve an equilibrium. Anyone who thinks you can or should get an entire population playing to such an extreme singular tune, has a few screws loose. But cheer up. Since I wrote this post, by Murphy's Law, it's basically guaranteed you'll get your wish anyway. God have mercy on us all though. Because Murphy seldom has things play out in a way anybody likes.
    - throwaway81523 4y ago
      Yeah, I'm pessimistic too, unless treatments and interventions get a lot better and someone knocks sense into our "leaders". But, interventions during the worst parts of the pendemic really did work. We just don't have the fortitude to keep them in place. I have been wanting to post a rant, though probably not to here. Good ventilation everywhere people gather would be a good start.
the_third_wave 4y ago
> It's like the literal opposite of "woke mind disease" In what way is it "the literal opposite" of what is in general terms called "woke "thought? This article implies that SARS2 can lead to cognitive decline. The "woke" trend also clearly leads to cognitive decline as it trades in objective truth for a subjective version of "your truth". It is the pursuit of objective truths - embodied in the scientific method - which got society out of the so-called "dark ages" and into the "modern age". The "woke" movement seems intent on turning back the clock where an appointed priesthood of "D.E.I." functionaries gets to set the terms by which society runs, just like the Catholic priesthood did in the middle ages. Instead of Opus Dei it is to be opus D.E.I. but the effect is the same, free thought is to be shackled. > except, unlike the former, it may actually be real. I do not know whether you have visited a university recently but if you did so and came away with the idea that this so-called "woke mind disease" has not been spread far and wide I'd like to hear what you thin is the cause of the current upheaval in Academia. Is it just the term "woke mind disease" which you do not agree with or do you fundamentally disagree with the conclusion of Academia being overrun by a radical form of identity politics?

by jehb 4y ago

salawat 4y ago

Hot take: The people coexisting with the thing are representative of a new biological groundstate for humanity. You see them as politically undesirable, but like it or not, the damn thing is endemic now. Welcome to the new world 'omae. You can live in your bubble, or you can pop it and rejoin with everyone else. 90% of the world even with perfect compliance is not capable of sustainably eliminating the damn thing. I'm betting that you'll see a trend over the next decade toward ongoing adult neurogenesis to compensate for the destructive pressure of the infectious agent, an uptick in metacognitive traits manifesting in the populace, combined with higher incidence of self-reported mental illness, and associated de-stigmatization. On the whole, there may be some silver lining to it afterall.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway81523 4y ago
> The people coexisting with the thing are representative of a new biological groundstate for humanity. You see them as politically undesirable, but like it or not, the damn thing is endemic now. We had something like that in the 1970s too, with leaded gasoline. There is a theory that neurotoxic effects of lead exposure caused similar behaviour changes in large numbers of people, resulting in a US-wide bump in violent crime until the exposed cohort aged out after leaded gas was banned: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposur... https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-le... Added: re politically undesirable: it seems to me that powerful political and similar figures tend to be extravert types who spend a lot of time around other people think they are somehow immune, so they get infected. So Trump, Musk, Boris Johnson, and (not sure) maybe Biden have all been infected. Musk has always been a bit toxic, but at least he used to know how to make money. Lately he has been mismanaging Twitter and Tesla pretty badly. Could that be from Covid?
- salawat 4y ago
  That one is drastically different in that you could politically cycle that out. It wasn't self-replicating, with the only contribution needed for perpetuation being humans that breathe to exist. Leaded gas required it to be economically feasible to continue producing/consuming leaded gas. Leaded gas required a human being to make it in the first place, and keep it being made. COVID gives not 2 shakes about profittability. Think of it like measles, but without the antigenic stability to keep vaccines effective in the long term. It's here,and it's here to stay. It ain't just humans that host the thing either. So what are you going to do? Drive all the reservoir species to extinction? Convince everyone to be okay with locking up non-compliant persons with the public health system? Implement it? Then what? I'm sure such an authoritarian cudgel won't be abused ever and will be dismantled as soon as COVID hits smallpox/polio status and stays that way, right? With full dismantling, and invalidation of precedent, reversal of enforcement budgets and teardown of infrastructure without repurposing... Right? If you think I'm just being a codger who doesn't think COVID is more than a flu, you're dead wrong. It is much, much more, and far worse by leagues. Whatever we do to try to "eradicate" it, however, has the potential to completely dismantle the fundamental principles on which a classically liberal government operates. "Public health" is one of about four things in which the best of intentions is basically guaranteed to turn into the highway to hell. Nat Sec, and the Economy, being two more, and with "For the Children" being the last. We're going to have to work through it, and achieve an equilibrium. Anyone who thinks you can or should get an entire population playing to such an extreme singular tune, has a few screws loose. But cheer up. Since I wrote this post, by Murphy's Law, it's basically guaranteed you'll get your wish anyway. God have mercy on us all though. Because Murphy seldom has things play out in a way anybody likes.
  - throwaway81523 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm pessimistic too, unless treatments and interventions get a lot better and someone knocks sense into our "leaders". But, interventions during the worst parts of the pendemic really did work. We just don't have the fortitude to keep them in place. I have been wanting to post a rant, though probably not to here. Good ventilation everywhere people gather would be a good start.

the_third_wave 4y ago

> It's like the literal opposite of "woke mind disease" In what way is it "the literal opposite" of what is in general terms called "woke "thought? This article implies that SARS2 can lead to cognitive decline. The "woke" trend also clearly leads to cognitive decline as it trades in objective truth for a subjective version of "your truth". It is the pursuit of objective truths - embodied in the scientific method - which got society out of the so-called "dark ages" and into the "modern age". The "woke" movement seems intent on turning back the clock where an appointed priesthood of "D.E.I." functionaries gets to set the terms by which society runs, just like the Catholic priesthood did in the middle ages. Instead of Opus Dei it is to be opus D.E.I. but the effect is the same, free thought is to be shackled. > except, unlike the former, it may actually be real. I do not know whether you have visited a university recently but if you did so and came away with the idea that this so-called "woke mind disease" has not been spread far and wide I'd like to hear what you thin is the cause of the current upheaval in Academia. Is it just the term "woke mind disease" which you do not agree with or do you fundamentally disagree with the conclusion of Academia being overrun by a radical form of identity politics?