7 ms·

True, but they still have the '8 day free trial then £59.99 a year billing' for some apps. My wife installed a design app she wanted to try out, forgot to canc

by ljf 4y ago

True, but they still have the '8 day free trial then £59.99 a year billing' for some apps. My wife installed a design app she wanted to try out, forgot to cancel and was stung last week. For such a high purchase price that feels to me like there should be addition verification step before charging. Especially since the app was terrible and the reviews were full of people who were similarly charged and unhappy.

nickthegreek 4y ago
What is bonkers about that? Apple let 2 consenting parties enter into an agreement and provides a single interface to cancel that agreement whenever you want from their pocket without talking to anyone. I struggle to think of a better setup.
- Mavvie 4y ago
  I think the Google Play store also sends you a reminder before a free trial converts to a paid plan, which is better.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    That is a great idea, but I could not find any information/screenshots about Google Play doing this.
    - Mavvie 4y ago
      I double checked my email and confirmed I'm not hallucinating! I can upload screenshots later if you want. It seems they email me a few days before a trial ends (the longer the trial, the more advanced notice they give)
      - nickthegreek 4y ago
        Ah, an email. I was searching for notifications or some sort in OS warning. That is a plus for Google in my book. Apple apparently does not do this.
- joseph_grobbles 4y ago
  You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than "free trial" subscription-based apps on the App Store. It is, overwhelmingly, a tool used for scams. The pattern- -hide promised functionality behind subscription. -offer "free trial", often with very short trial periods. -convert that into a big dollar subscriptions. They know that most of the people who they ensnare are probably going through a multitude of tools trying to find a solution for some problem (and the fact the tool in question often fails to do what it promised is a feature because it encourages the user to move on quicker), and some subset will fail to cancel the "trial" before it becomes a pay service. Consenting adults, sure, and personally I have never fallen prey to this, looking at the in-app purchases and just refusing to be baited, but it's enough of a problem that it should embarrass Apple a bit.
- burnished 4y ago
  One in which no one is surprised when a free trial rolls over to a paid subscription - perhaps that shouldnt even be allowable, given that its mostly done to make money off of people not paying attention.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    If they are surprised, then the user was not paying attention multiple times. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/11/app-store-subscription-confirmation/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/11/app-store-subscription-...
    - burnished 4y ago
      Let me spell it out more clearly - surprised that the transaction occurred because they forgot to cancel it. Do you not see this as plainly duplicitous behavior? I think the intention to deceive is far more cogent than any warnings.
      - nickthegreek 4y ago
        Let me do the same - The user went through multiple screens that told them exactly what would happen and when. That isn’t misleading so it cannot by definition be duplicitous. Do I think there is room for a more user centric design? Yes. Do I stay away from subscription based iOS apps? Yes. Do other people use them and enjoy them? also yes.
        burnished 4y ago
        It is - free trial with automatic rollover is set up anticipating that people will forget to cancel. It is not being offered as a good faith service. Inherently if you are relying on something to thwart or subvert the intention of the person you are dealing with you are engaging in duplicitous behavior.
        nickthegreek 4y ago
- Fnoord 4y ago
  > What is bonkers about that? That people forget. That's part of the market of trial and subs in general. Its why gyms flourish. People subscribe but don't go. They (iOS) have the data that you use or not use the app. They could notify you with a warning that your renewal is due. Or allow you the option to set the reminder in your calendar or bank app.
j16sdiz 4y ago
Apple allow you to press cancel immediately after sign up and the account will remain valid until the 8th day.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  I think there's also a 14 day grace period after the charge to cancel and refund the subscription. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084
- latexr 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I had both an Apple Arcade and an Apple TV trial a few years back. I tried cancelling prematurely to avoid surprise charges and the interface told me in no uncertain terms that if I cancelled before the trial expired, I’d lose access immediately.

by ljf 4y ago

nickthegreek 4y ago

What is bonkers about that? Apple let 2 consenting parties enter into an agreement and provides a single interface to cancel that agreement whenever you want from their pocket without talking to anyone. I struggle to think of a better setup.

Mavvie 4y ago
I think the Google Play store also sends you a reminder before a free trial converts to a paid plan, which is better.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  That is a great idea, but I could not find any information/screenshots about Google Play doing this.
  - Mavvie 4y ago
    I double checked my email and confirmed I'm not hallucinating! I can upload screenshots later if you want. It seems they email me a few days before a trial ends (the longer the trial, the more advanced notice they give)
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      Ah, an email. I was searching for notifications or some sort in OS warning. That is a plus for Google in my book. Apple apparently does not do this.
joseph_grobbles 4y ago
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than "free trial" subscription-based apps on the App Store. It is, overwhelmingly, a tool used for scams. The pattern- -hide promised functionality behind subscription. -offer "free trial", often with very short trial periods. -convert that into a big dollar subscriptions. They know that most of the people who they ensnare are probably going through a multitude of tools trying to find a solution for some problem (and the fact the tool in question often fails to do what it promised is a feature because it encourages the user to move on quicker), and some subset will fail to cancel the "trial" before it becomes a pay service. Consenting adults, sure, and personally I have never fallen prey to this, looking at the in-app purchases and just refusing to be baited, but it's enough of a problem that it should embarrass Apple a bit.
burnished 4y ago
One in which no one is surprised when a free trial rolls over to a paid subscription - perhaps that shouldnt even be allowable, given that its mostly done to make money off of people not paying attention.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  If they are surprised, then the user was not paying attention multiple times. https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/11/app-store-subscription-confirmation/ https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/11/app-store-subscription-...
  - burnished 4y ago
    Let me spell it out more clearly - surprised that the transaction occurred because they forgot to cancel it. Do you not see this as plainly duplicitous behavior? I think the intention to deceive is far more cogent than any warnings.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      Let me do the same - The user went through multiple screens that told them exactly what would happen and when. That isn’t misleading so it cannot by definition be duplicitous. Do I think there is room for a more user centric design? Yes. Do I stay away from subscription based iOS apps? Yes. Do other people use them and enjoy them? also yes.
      - burnished 4y ago
        It is - free trial with automatic rollover is set up anticipating that people will forget to cancel. It is not being offered as a good faith service. Inherently if you are relying on something to thwart or subvert the intention of the person you are dealing with you are engaging in duplicitous behavior.
        nickthegreek 4y ago
Fnoord 4y ago
> What is bonkers about that? That people forget. That's part of the market of trial and subs in general. Its why gyms flourish. People subscribe but don't go. They (iOS) have the data that you use or not use the app. They could notify you with a warning that your renewal is due. Or allow you the option to set the reminder in your calendar or bank app.

j16sdiz 4y ago

Apple allow you to press cancel immediately after sign up and the account will remain valid until the 8th day.

ceejayoz 4y ago
I think there's also a 14 day grace period after the charge to cancel and refund the subscription. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084
latexr 4y ago
Anecdotally, I had both an Apple Arcade and an Apple TV trial a few years back. I tried cancelling prematurely to avoid surprise charges and the interface told me in no uncertain terms that if I cancelled before the trial expired, I’d lose access immediately.